Delta quietly increases change fee to $100 too
Jan 29, 2001, 7:40 pm
#16
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: ATL via ORD
Posts: 6
Maybe Leo is going to use that extra twenty-five bucks to replace those stethoscope earphones in coach. They plug into the inside of Delta's "ever so roomy" coach seat.
I have found that they help to while away the time on those trans oceanic flights, especially when you shift positions and knock them loose. You can try to find the holes to plug them back in while in the darkened cabin, or turn on your reading light and experience the glares of your fellow sardines. Anyway, by the time you get them back in you've missed out on whatever you were listening to, and the flight attendants are beginning to serve Delta's famous "frozen Crescent Roll & canned fruit salad" Continental Breakfast. Since I can no longer use my system upgrades on DL for Europe, I am really enjoying DL's roomy coach cabin.
Is there any truth to the rumor that Delta is buying those five rows of seats from American to add to the coach cabin in their long haul international 777s?
I have found that they help to while away the time on those trans oceanic flights, especially when you shift positions and knock them loose. You can try to find the holes to plug them back in while in the darkened cabin, or turn on your reading light and experience the glares of your fellow sardines. Anyway, by the time you get them back in you've missed out on whatever you were listening to, and the flight attendants are beginning to serve Delta's famous "frozen Crescent Roll & canned fruit salad" Continental Breakfast. Since I can no longer use my system upgrades on DL for Europe, I am really enjoying DL's roomy coach cabin.
Is there any truth to the rumor that Delta is buying those five rows of seats from American to add to the coach cabin in their long haul international 777s?
Jan 29, 2001, 9:54 pm
#17
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
Programs: Destination Unknown, TSA Disparager Diamond (LTDD)
Posts: 57,953
My goodness, I had no idea they were such thoughtful $#$%%$#s.
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"Sire, it is not a revolt. It is a Revolution!"
Originally posted by balt4house:
Agent claimed DL was the last to up the fee.
Agent claimed DL was the last to up the fee.
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"Sire, it is not a revolt. It is a Revolution!"
Jan 30, 2001, 8:22 am
#18
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Niceville, FL, USA
Posts: 2,793
Well, NoStressHere, if your company would change my itinerary and expect ME to pay the change fee out of my own pocket, you need not fear my ever working for it!
Jan 30, 2001, 9:14 am
#19
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
Programs: Destination Unknown, TSA Disparager Diamond (LTDD)
Posts: 57,953
The airlines do not need more money. They have raised fares faster and higher than ever. First out of greed, then out of "fuel concerns" (even the airlines that hedged!) and now once again out of greed. Time to layoff some useless middle management, trim those executives' salaries, and stop wasting money on crap like new paint jobs and chincy seat backs. Put me in charge and I guarantee happy flyers, shareholders, and (of the ones I don't fire out of uselessness or stupidity) employees (most of Delta's employees are VERY good and would not get axed. 
).
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"Sire, it is not a revolt. It is a Revolution!"
).
Originally posted by JS:
If airlines need more money, they should raise the fare.
If airlines need more money, they should raise the fare.
------------------
"Sire, it is not a revolt. It is a Revolution!"
Jan 30, 2001, 10:31 am
#20
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: GSP (Greenville, SC)
Programs: DL Gold Medallion; UA Premier Executive; WN sub-CP; AA sub-Gold
Posts: 13,393
Spiff, I said if the airlines need more money... The converse is not necessarily true.
Jan 30, 2001, 1:13 pm
#21
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 46,817
Here's the release! 
Delta Air Lines has begun charging $100 to change a ticket, following the lead of several rivals.
The new fee, an increase from the previous $75, applies to all domestic Delta and Delta Connection flights but not to international flights or flights on Delta Express, its Florida-based discount subsidiary. The ticket-change fee for Delta Shuttle flights was increased to $75 from $50
http://biz.yahoo.com/apf/010130/airline_fe.html
Delta Air Lines has begun charging $100 to change a ticket, following the lead of several rivals.
The new fee, an increase from the previous $75, applies to all domestic Delta and Delta Connection flights but not to international flights or flights on Delta Express, its Florida-based discount subsidiary. The ticket-change fee for Delta Shuttle flights was increased to $75 from $50
http://biz.yahoo.com/apf/010130/airline_fe.html
Jan 30, 2001, 1:23 pm
#22
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: dublin,ireland AA ( 3mm)
Posts: 1,825
Doesn't apply to Intl flights as there they charge up to $150.00
Jan 30, 2001, 6:55 pm
#23
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: JFK/LAX
Posts: 1,436
I think this is a situation where we all must politely express our outrage at the counter when we're told of the increase. not to say they'll change it back, but this is another one I'm not taking quietly.
Jan 31, 2001, 1:19 am
#24
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Monkeyville
Programs: Island DOs, very sticky toffee pud w vanilla ice cream n multi-coloured velvet pillows enthusiast
Posts: 4,647
please explain: does this $100.00 change fee apply to tkts purchased before jan 29th, 2000? in total we have 14 unused tkts! a family trip cancelled back in november due to medical emergency... any chance of Delta waiving this fourteen hundred buckaroos?
cutting it by half, hence $700.00?
okay, i must be dreaming.....
cutting it by half, hence $700.00?
okay, i must be dreaming.....
Jan 31, 2001, 1:22 am
#25
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Monkeyville
Programs: Island DOs, very sticky toffee pud w vanilla ice cream n multi-coloured velvet pillows enthusiast
Posts: 4,647
the rule stated change fee was $75.00 when we purchased the tkts...
at least they would give us a grace period to have the tkts reissued...
at least they would give us a grace period to have the tkts reissued...
Jan 31, 2001, 7:53 pm
#26
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,688
belle3388,
If the fee was $75 when you bought the tix, that's what you'll pay to change them.
We changed some tickets at the SAN CTO on Monday, and were charged $75 each because that's what was in effect when we bought the tix. The reissued tix would have a $100 fee if we were to change them again.
I thought in cases of documented medical emergency, the fees could be waived, but perhaps my info is outdated, or it might only apply to the person with the actual medical problem.
In any event, you should now have credit with Delta in the amount of whatever you paid for your tix, less $75 per ticket. Or is there something I'm not understanding here?
If the fee was $75 when you bought the tix, that's what you'll pay to change them.
We changed some tickets at the SAN CTO on Monday, and were charged $75 each because that's what was in effect when we bought the tix. The reissued tix would have a $100 fee if we were to change them again.
I thought in cases of documented medical emergency, the fees could be waived, but perhaps my info is outdated, or it might only apply to the person with the actual medical problem.
In any event, you should now have credit with Delta in the amount of whatever you paid for your tix, less $75 per ticket. Or is there something I'm not understanding here?
Feb 1, 2001, 12:05 am
#27
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Monkeyville
Programs: Island DOs, very sticky toffee pud w vanilla ice cream n multi-coloured velvet pillows enthusiast
Posts: 4,647
thanks for the explanation, GG
no, the tkts bought are non-refundable, we can only apply the amount to future tkts less $75.00, in this case...
also no, Delta does not waive change fee under ANY circumstances... it was a family trip, one sister had to be hospitalized, there was no way we were still going without her... did call Delta however, and the answer was expected: NO
(to think that i made sure everyone fly deta to our destination, they could have flown Southwest, and no change fee!)
no, the tkts bought are non-refundable, we can only apply the amount to future tkts less $75.00, in this case...
also no, Delta does not waive change fee under ANY circumstances... it was a family trip, one sister had to be hospitalized, there was no way we were still going without her... did call Delta however, and the answer was expected: NO
(to think that i made sure everyone fly deta to our destination, they could have flown Southwest, and no change fee!)
Feb 1, 2001, 8:10 am
#28
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: SAN Diego (Hillcrest); formerly LEXington, KY; still like the nym
Programs: DL Platinum; Marriott Lifetime Platinum; married to Hilton Elite
Posts: 3,028
The problem the airlines see is that it does cost them more than the admin fee to change our "nonrefundable" tickets.
Back when nonrefundables started, they really were nonrefundable. Then, airlines started allowing medical excuses. This snowballed so that lots of folks asked their doctors for excuses to save the money.
So, the airlines came up with the change fee, to take some of the pain out of cancelling and avoid the medical excuse scam. All they give you is credit on a future flight, so at least they keep the revenue.
Problem is, you've emptied a seat set aside for your fare class. The airline computer programs have a pretty good idea of how many seats to keep open for last minute passengers based on historic data. They hold those and don't sell them cheap. But since not many advance purchase fares are cancelled, there's a much smaller data base of info about them, so the ability to predict cancellations is smaller, so airlines are more likely to end up either overbooking or going out with an empty seat when we cancel. Either case costs them money.
Charging us more is a way to make up for this. I don't like to pay it, but charging $100 to change or cancel a "nonchangeable, nonrefundable" ticket is still not a bad deal. And none of us wants to go back to the days of the phony doctor excuses, do we? (OK, maybe the folks who have no compunction about that sort of thing do, but I don't.)
Back when nonrefundables started, they really were nonrefundable. Then, airlines started allowing medical excuses. This snowballed so that lots of folks asked their doctors for excuses to save the money.
So, the airlines came up with the change fee, to take some of the pain out of cancelling and avoid the medical excuse scam. All they give you is credit on a future flight, so at least they keep the revenue.
Problem is, you've emptied a seat set aside for your fare class. The airline computer programs have a pretty good idea of how many seats to keep open for last minute passengers based on historic data. They hold those and don't sell them cheap. But since not many advance purchase fares are cancelled, there's a much smaller data base of info about them, so the ability to predict cancellations is smaller, so airlines are more likely to end up either overbooking or going out with an empty seat when we cancel. Either case costs them money.
Charging us more is a way to make up for this. I don't like to pay it, but charging $100 to change or cancel a "nonchangeable, nonrefundable" ticket is still not a bad deal. And none of us wants to go back to the days of the phony doctor excuses, do we? (OK, maybe the folks who have no compunction about that sort of thing do, but I don't.)
Feb 1, 2001, 2:13 pm
#29
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Phila Delta ex-PM, ex-UA-PE
Posts: 2,659
The problem with this arguement is it should work bth ways. In a strict yield-management environment, if I change a flight, and that causes a loss in revenue (for that flight), then yes I should absord some of the cost (passed on via the change of ticket fee).
A couple of points on this first:
- while I might have caused a 'loss' on the original flight, do I not cause a 'gain' on the new flight (which I otherwise wasn't originally booked on)? I'm not asking for my money back, just 100% credit applied to a new flight.
- why do we assume my original seat will go out empty on the plane? Maybe the change of ticket fee should be proportion to how close to the original travel date you cancel? Hotels all have periods (from 6pm day of arrival to 1-2 weeks out) that you can cancel and not incur a penalty.
- who's to say the original ticket wasn't a sale one, later cancelled, and then that seat sold to a business traveller paying full fare? In fact, it could be that I bought a sale ticket, cancelled it, and had to buy a last minute full (or higher fare) ticket. In this case, they probably made money.
Back to the original point. If I cancel my flight, charge me what it cost your (or some averaged value, say $100). But, by the same yield-manangement rules, if at the last minute I want to BUY a ticket, they you should see it to me at some averaged value for what it cost the airline.
If there are 100 people on a 757, what is that actual cost to the airline for me to get on that plane and become passenger 101? Definitely not the current walkup (full) fares they charge. If Delta (or any airline) says it 'costs' them $100 because I'm not on that original flight, then let someone else pay $100-$120 to get on and basically replace them. After all, we are concerned about "what the actual costs are".
This obviously won't work. Of course it 'costs' something to change an existing issue (though if done all electronically by the user, it could be next to nothing). If you've ever returned a product to a store, you can see that probably costs them something too. Certainly the time of the salesperson performing the return or exchange, not to mention the overhead of reprocessing that inventory.
Most stores don't charge anything for this (some, like CompUSA, and other electronics stores, recently added 'restocking' fees). They don't change because returns are part of the whole buying experience. People buy Sears Craftsman tools because the promise is, "Satisfaction guaranteed or your money back." I'm sure most people don't return tools, but I'm sure a lot buy there because they know if they have to, they won't have a problem. Sears recognizes that the $1 it costs for that policy probably results in $10 in sales (just made up numbers).
Delta should realize that charging more just angers their customers. If there was no fee (best case), I could see more people booking trips, figuring if for some reason they have to cancel it, they won't loose anything (though Delta still has the money for their original ticket, which is okay). With a $100 fee, if I can't narrow down exact dates and times, I likely wouldn't buy at all.
I would propose ticket change fees based on 2 factors:
1. How close to departure date - maybe within 24hrs $100, 72hrs $50, 1 wk $25 (just examples). Also, unlimited changes within 3 days after purchase, assuming it doesn't violate above rules. The cost to change a flight I have in May should not be the same as if that same flight was next Monday.
2. Method to do the change - If I make the change at the airport, 10% surcharge. If over the phone (with Delta), or by a travel agent, 5%. If done on web by user of an eticket, no charge. (This could also be a fee (additional $10,$5,$0), or a discount off of the charge in #1 above (0%,5%,10%).
In a truly competative marketplace I think we might actually see this. However, the fact is that airlines are not that competative. Because of hubs many people have little choice but to fly a particular airline. Thus, there is no reason for Delta to discount a fee that users really have no choice but to pay.
Jeff
A couple of points on this first:
- while I might have caused a 'loss' on the original flight, do I not cause a 'gain' on the new flight (which I otherwise wasn't originally booked on)? I'm not asking for my money back, just 100% credit applied to a new flight.
- why do we assume my original seat will go out empty on the plane? Maybe the change of ticket fee should be proportion to how close to the original travel date you cancel? Hotels all have periods (from 6pm day of arrival to 1-2 weeks out) that you can cancel and not incur a penalty.
- who's to say the original ticket wasn't a sale one, later cancelled, and then that seat sold to a business traveller paying full fare? In fact, it could be that I bought a sale ticket, cancelled it, and had to buy a last minute full (or higher fare) ticket. In this case, they probably made money.
Back to the original point. If I cancel my flight, charge me what it cost your (or some averaged value, say $100). But, by the same yield-manangement rules, if at the last minute I want to BUY a ticket, they you should see it to me at some averaged value for what it cost the airline.
If there are 100 people on a 757, what is that actual cost to the airline for me to get on that plane and become passenger 101? Definitely not the current walkup (full) fares they charge. If Delta (or any airline) says it 'costs' them $100 because I'm not on that original flight, then let someone else pay $100-$120 to get on and basically replace them. After all, we are concerned about "what the actual costs are".
This obviously won't work. Of course it 'costs' something to change an existing issue (though if done all electronically by the user, it could be next to nothing). If you've ever returned a product to a store, you can see that probably costs them something too. Certainly the time of the salesperson performing the return or exchange, not to mention the overhead of reprocessing that inventory.
Most stores don't charge anything for this (some, like CompUSA, and other electronics stores, recently added 'restocking' fees). They don't change because returns are part of the whole buying experience. People buy Sears Craftsman tools because the promise is, "Satisfaction guaranteed or your money back." I'm sure most people don't return tools, but I'm sure a lot buy there because they know if they have to, they won't have a problem. Sears recognizes that the $1 it costs for that policy probably results in $10 in sales (just made up numbers).
Delta should realize that charging more just angers their customers. If there was no fee (best case), I could see more people booking trips, figuring if for some reason they have to cancel it, they won't loose anything (though Delta still has the money for their original ticket, which is okay). With a $100 fee, if I can't narrow down exact dates and times, I likely wouldn't buy at all.
I would propose ticket change fees based on 2 factors:
1. How close to departure date - maybe within 24hrs $100, 72hrs $50, 1 wk $25 (just examples). Also, unlimited changes within 3 days after purchase, assuming it doesn't violate above rules. The cost to change a flight I have in May should not be the same as if that same flight was next Monday.
2. Method to do the change - If I make the change at the airport, 10% surcharge. If over the phone (with Delta), or by a travel agent, 5%. If done on web by user of an eticket, no charge. (This could also be a fee (additional $10,$5,$0), or a discount off of the charge in #1 above (0%,5%,10%).
In a truly competative marketplace I think we might actually see this. However, the fact is that airlines are not that competative. Because of hubs many people have little choice but to fly a particular airline. Thus, there is no reason for Delta to discount a fee that users really have no choice but to pay.
Jeff
Feb 1, 2001, 2:28 pm
#30
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: NY, NY USA
Posts: 19
The united board is just as upset about the UA change fee increase to $100. Talk about price fixing!!!