jfulcher

$800 in vouchers is worth probably $100-200 in real world dollars. You have to look at what it really costs Delta for those. If I take a bump a requirment I have is that they put me in first on the next flight they give me. If they can't guarantee me that then good luck getting the next person, maybe they'll find someone, maybe not. Usually when they rebook you in first it's a full F fare too and not an upgraded fare, so that wouldn't have stood out probably. I would have not gotten on that flight and made them put me on the next possible flight in B/E. Hey if DL didn't want to make those concessions they shouldn't have oversold the flight! There are other airlines that function pretty well without having to bump passengers at all.

rcs85551

The premium cabin has been overbooked by Delta for quite some time. Air France is even worse - they even overbook Codeshare flights although it is against their agreement with Delta.

Flights to/from CDG are often authorized up to -5 in the premium cabin on the 777, and up to -3 on the 763.

Canarsie

That is a good point. There have been times where I have volunteered to be bumped in the past, received vouchers and flew on a later flight in First Class, and was pleasantly surprised to find on my SkyMiles statement that I received 50% bonus SkyMiles in addition to the SkyMiles that I would have originally earned.

Robert Leach

DeltaPurser,

In all honesty, and with all respect, that is one of the most customer-unfriendly, ridiculous replies I have ever read! The airline sought out the guy to be bumped. The guy did the airline a favor and DELAYED his honeymoon a day. A deal was cut.

By its very nature, the negotiation process in an oversold situation is one of give-and-take and the result HAS to be one that benefits both parties (the airline avoids the involuntary bump -- which is tracked by government reports and is factored into airline quality ratings reported by the media and hence can influence the general standing of the carrier in the eyes of the public, hence the need to avoid involuntary bumps -- and the customer gets something of value as offered by the airline for his inconvenience). The deal was cut.

Where do you get the idea that the airline can simply terminate the deal in an arrogant unilateral manner? If they couldn't guarantee the guy BE seating over the water, they should have told him that it would only be on a standby basis (of course, that couldn't happen, because Delta has declared itself physically incapable of accommodating customers on a standby basis for BE).

Honestly, this response of yours epitomizes the disconnect that many (dare I say, most?) airline employees have with regard to how to treat a customer. Your reflex response, without actually saying it, was to immediately regard this guy, who paid a U fare, as unimportant because he paid so little -- after all, he should simply be happy for anything the airline chooses to give him, because he's on such a cheap fare. This attitude permeates the soul of most major legacy carriers today, and it's a major reason why market share for these carriers continues a steady decline.

Dad to Rei

Wow, my first two page thread.

Ok, so hear is some more info. First off, I NEVER would have volunteered to take the vouchers alone, as we typically fly US Air out of PHL. That was why I NEGOTIATED for the bump to BE, the vouchers were/are of limited value. (Can I use them to book on a partner, like NW?).

Secondly, I had a boarding card in my hand for BE, that they did not honor.

Thirdly, and most interestingly to me, the miles posted to my account, as J class, with the 50% bonus (For the international portion) and F class with 50% bonus for the PHL-ATL. Though, I was clearly seated in seat 38A, and not 1J as the origional boarding card said for ATL-CDG.

I have sent off a letter to both Delta, and the FAA. Included are copies of the boarding cards, both for BE, and coach.

As for why I took Delta, at the time I booked, they were about $300 cheaper than US Air, and since I could swing the miles to NW, I figured what the heck.

Swiss Tony

This is interesting, so just wanted to pitch in with a very similar situation I had on UA in January. I was flying YYC-ORD-LHR. Both flights oversold & they started asking us about how flexible our travel plans were at check in at YYC. They put us down for a bump, but everything across the pond was booked solid in the premium cabins (we had bought Y tickets & upgraded with miles), so they didn't want to reroute us. However, they couldn't get enough volunteers, so finally put us on AA to ORD, then a later UA flight to LHR, but upgraded to First across the water. We took this as a deal & they threw in $300 VDB's each.

Got to the First Class lounge in ORD some hours later & they immediately took the BP's off me & handed us back 2 in C Class saying that the upgrade was illegal, couldn't be done, double cabin upgrades etc etc.

The also gave the spiel about 2 pax walking up & buying the F Class seats at full fare. I spent 2 hrs arguing this with Customer Services who were steadily increasing their offers of compensation, seemingly unable to grasp the fact that i'd entered into a contract with them in YYC and part of taking the bump (so they could get their plane out) involved the u/g to First.

At the 11th hour, the seats became available in F again. What the real story was, I guess we'll never know, but how often does this happen when you take the bump, but not at the gateway city?

rcs85551

I had a similar thing happen to me at JFK once. My two travel companions got downgraded to coach as they went over by 6 in BizElite on JFK-CDG.

As there is no fare difference to be refunded, you lost out in the first place. The only thing you can do is complain to Delta about it. In my case, they were offered 20.000 bonus miles or an additional $300 voucher, but only after going through the executive offices.

Mountain Trader

I see no evidence of that. I just checked available BE seats on Delta's 5 non-stops to CDG for today and the next 3 days and there's an average of 13 unassigned BE seats per flight.

andymo99

You are wrong:

1) Just because the seat mapper shows unassigned seats does not mean that there are even seats for sale. Some people have confirmed res without a seat assignment.

Edited to add case in point: DL 132 on Aug 20, JFK-ATH (I purposely picked this route due to Olympic demand this summer)... seat mapper at Edelman site shows 4 unassigned. However, go to delta.com and try to buy a J ticket on this route. Sorry, none available.

2) Let's assume those 13 unassigned seats did equal the unsold inventory. So there are 13 available seats, however, DL might still offer 15 for sale. That is, they are willing to oversell the cabin.

Edited a second time to add a case in point. On DL 22, ATL-CDG, today (4/13) same seatmapper currently shows 6 seats available for selection. However, you can go to delta.com, and it will indeed let you buy 7 J seats.


I can assure you that DL routinely oversells international J by a few, and yet very rarely does J check in over.

Pointfreak!

Personally, I believe that when I volunteer, I have no right to complain as I am being compensated for such. I have also never been guaranteed a BE/F seat as part of a bump (then again I never demanded one)...I was just happy to get picked for "the bump" at all! Again...my glass is half full.

Parris/Jasper Dad

First DLPurser, I think that Delta should honor its contract made with a passenger. Do you think it is ok for them to void a contract just becuase they think it is too good of a deal, afterwards? i.e. I buy a b/e elite ticket in I from NYC to Ams for $1200 and the flight is oversold can they down grade me to coach becuase someone wants to $6000 for the same trip?

Second in bankruptcy, any contract that has been made can be voided. If Delta wants to void its contracts this is what is must do. If however the unilaterally try to void a contract, they will piss a lot of people off and this applies to contacts with Passengers and Employees. So if you support them voiding the contract in the first issue, please expect it for your compensation as well.

Third I think we all want Delta to avoid banruptcy the question is how this is prevented. I say honoring your contracts is a good start

Parris/Jasper Dad

duplicate message

Mountain Trader

I agree that Delta does oversell and might do so even more, if they could. I also agree that the system allows them to oversell beyond the capacity shown on the Edelman site.

But I am unconvinced any of that means they regularly DO oversell, given the number of seats shown unassigned. I doubt more than 11 people with reservations for tonight's CVG-CDG Flight 44 didn't bother to get a seat assigned. I also doubt there'll be walk-ups to fill however many of those 11 seats were really available. I would guess more people cancel last minute international travel than book same.

My theory is that Delta (and UA) have cut way back on the number of upgrades they allow to clear in advance of a day or two before their international flights. They know they can fill the seats since they sell expensive coach tickets to people who go on the wait list. Thus, they have virtually no risk-if they can sell the BE seats for full fare, they do. If not, they collect the Skymiles and grant the upgrades. I suppose this is a form of overselling but to me it's not really the same.

Pointfreak!

UDH...Does Delta not have a policy in place for compensation? Are GA's allowed to embellish this policy? If I demand that in addition to my bump compensation I also get a seat in an exit row, free drinks & a lacto-ovo meal is the GA authorized to promise such?

My suspicion is no.

rcs85551

Just for those who question what I said:

All flights to CDG on DL metal to CDG tonight have an overbooking authorization of 3 seats (ATL/CVG) and 2 seats (JFK) in the BusinessElite cabin.

Mountain Trader, you'll trust me if you are one of those buying a discounted D fare at the last minute (which is often still avaiable) and find yourself sitting in the back.

As for the compensation, gate agents are supposed to find some volunteers willing to take a later flight with compensation as if you took a bump from coach.