Delta Simulators
 

Hello
I'm a Delta Airlines simulator technician. I have been with Delta since 1987. I would be happy to take questions on Delta's simulators. I do not speak on behalf of Delta Airlines, but I am a proud Delta employee. Our pilot training is second to none.
Knfenimore

Welcome knfenimore and thanks for the offer!

I already have one question: Who is your simulator supplier/maintainer? Also, do you happen to know who develops the courseware used for Delta pilot training?

Please make sure you are not violating any internal disclosure policies - DL's official voice here (Jeff Robertson/RealDLInsider) has been quite blunt relating to this matter in a prior thread.

Welcome to FT...

Indeed, it came from this post from Jeff:

I know we'd all love to hear about what you do, and I have a few dozen questions myself, but don't put yourself at risk in the process. I don't think it'll be too hard for upper mgmt. to figure out who you are ;)

I don't think knfenimore intends to violate any company policies, just answer questions about Delta's simulator training. He originally introduced himself in this thread. As you will see from the other thread, several people - including DL employees - already know who he is.

So, I'll ask a question... on the 'barrel rolls' referenced in that thread, does the entire sim. cockpit flip over, or just tilt a bit while the video display gives the appearance of a complete roll?

knfenimore, thanks for posting here!

Taxi'ing question
 

Hi knfenimore. First of all thank you again (I was the one urging you to create thunder, lightening and turbulance while Canarsie was flying the sim). You guys really changed flying for me that day!!!

I thought of a question today flying back fromm LAX, not sure why I didnt think of it that day (oh yeah I was on sensory overload *smile*). Anyway, I know when we landed on the runway we did everything with our feet (hated that btw *smile*) is all taxing (including getting out the runway) done with the feet also?

Taxiing around was the one piece we didnt do that day, you had us at the gate and poof we were lined up on the runway. Guess that means we get to come back to drive the sims around the airport right *smile*.

Oh, no doubt. Just looking out so we don't lose a good thing. I appreciate his posting here as much as the next guy. ^

Are you sure you'd really like to waste valuable sim time like that?

"kfeinmore, could you run the 'get tugged to the hangar for repairs' scenario for me, please. No I don't want to try to fly this 777 under the Golden Gate Bringe at 500 MPH anymore. That one was boring!" :D

Simulators
 

The simulators are on a 6 degree motion axis. Which means there are 6 hydraulic rams lifting the sim base using 1500 psi. The sim pitches and rolls, but can not actually flip you over. The visual displays will roll over and give you the sense of doing a barrel roll. The visual tricks the mind.
Our simulators that the guys took the tour in are CAE sims made in Canada. We have 13 CAE sims. We have 4 Rediffusion (Thales) simulators made in England. Last but not least we have 5 Singer Link sims made in Binghamton NY. All our visuals are made by Rediffusion which was bought by Rockwell Collins. Our sims reflect our fleet for the most part, 737-200 & 800, 757's, 767-300 400 and ER, 777, MD11's, MD88's, MD90, and L1011's. ATA rents the L1011. FEDEX and World Air rent the MD11's. Other airlines also rent our fleet aircraft.
Delta simulator techs & engineers maintain the hardware and software. We modify our sims to comply with our aircraft standards. The FAA test our sims to ensure that they exactly duplicate the aircraft tail number they are supposed to simulate.
Delta creates all its own training internally.
As far as getting in trouble, I will never bad mouth Delta and will only give out information on our sims. None of this is secret. Airlines around the world discuss and share simlation problems and solutions annually at a users conference. I will NOT give my opinion on Delta's policies and will not answer questions concerning Delta travel policies. My only reason for even doing this was to pass along info on Delta's excellent pilot training. I thought our BEST customers would be interested in our sims.
Keith

Taxi
 

Trying to get all the answers in. The rudders (feet) control the nose wheel steering, but travel is limited. The pedals are more for high speed T/O and landings. The pedals control the aircraft in the longitudinal axis. Another words side slip. The nosewheel steering is controled for taxi by a wheel positioned on the left side wall at about the Capt's left knee position. The 777 has 2 nosewheel steering wheels, 1 for the Capt and 1 for the F/O.
Keith

kfeinmore, you said that "airlines around the world discuss and share simulation problems and solutions annually at a users conference." Do the simulations scenarios, either at Delta or at other airlines, include being shot at by ground to air missiles?

(As I am certain you are aware, this is not a far-fetched possibility. It already happened to an Arkia Boeing 757 over Kenya; fortunately the two missiles missed.)

Training
 

As far as I know we do not train for missile avoidance. We do train for aircraft avoidance and ground traffic avoidance. I bet Israel does do missile avoidance training. There has been talk of anti-missile technology being installed on commercial aircraft. It would track an in coming missile and deploy chaff (foil streamers) if a missile is detected. This would cost 1 million per aircraft and until and aircraft is struck I do not see it happening.
Keith

Keith, morning. Thanks for the Link plug. I take a lot of teasing on here for living in BGM and it being the end of the known world, but see guys, we contributed big time to aviation. BGM is actually the Edward A Link Airfield (now the Greater Binghamton Regional Airport at Link Field - note the sign is the biggest part of the airport *Smile*). Here is the obit on Link, he was a rather cool guy http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...5AC0A967948260. Did you know flight sims started out as amusement rides!


Oh dear god, you have to from yoke, to rudders to a wheel on the wall???? That is rubbing your stomach, patting your head and walking *smile*. Being on the ground takes way more technique than I ever imagined. WHY did they make it so hard!!!

Thanks for the answer Keith!

Sounds like the next meet is at Lehava's. Maybe you'll finally get that deck built after all! :)

kfeinmore, is it true that it's possible that the first time a pilot actually flies an aircraft is in regular rotation with passengers, because the sims are so real? How many hours does it take to accomplish this?

Next question, would it ever be necessary to fly a sim on a long haul route, such as ATL-BOM, and actually stay in the sim the whole entire time, or do you just cover the important parts? Or is that not really the purpose of the sims, but more geared towards technical training?

I'm not even sure if I'm asking the questions right, so I hope you can understand what I am getting at.

Do the sims also simulate the automated features of the aircraft, such as the autopilot and the so-called "auto-land" systems (so that we're not at the mercy of Lehava's two hours of simulated flying experience (as Pilot In Command), should the call go out :D )?

Just kidding Lehava!

Simulated flights
 

As far as flying time goes, all pilots have hundreds of hours of flight time before they are hired. Most Delta pilots are ex-military pilots. Delta has always liked military pilots due to there experience and team attitude. All pilots have multi-enginge certificates and usually have logged time in "heavy" aircraft. You are hired in with prior experience and train for the lowest senority seat, F/O MD88. You bid for openings for aircraft, seat postition and routes based on senority. The bigger the plane the more you get paid. As far as going from the sim to the seat, that is what happens. As you can see, you have to earn your way into the seat through time. The sims are level D. That means once you are certified by your instructor and the FAA, youre good to go. The FAA rides along during your certification and you get a pass or fail. Very tough position to be in and you must do it every year. I have gotten into the pilot's seat after period is done and it was soaked with sweat, YUK. Periods are 4 hours long and crews usually are in the sim for 3 straight days. There is ground school before you even get to a sim for new pilots or pilots changing aircraf types.
Keith

It's knfenimore (as in James Fenimore Cooper), not kfeinmore. Is everyobdy dyslexic here? :)

Welcome, Keith!

No, just lazy, JFKLGA. :D


name noted.

James Fenimore Cooper
 

I'm actually related to James Fenimore Cooper. Pretty Cool Huh!

Figures, it's not a very common name.

Fenimore
 

There are lots of us in NJ and De.
Keith

Let me go on record right now as saying that I sincerely hope we didn't lose the last of the Mohicans because he crashed in a plane being piloted by someone who didn't have enough time in a simulator!

Welcome, Keith! Great info.

Are all DL's simulators in ATL?

Do pilots rotate around on equipment during a trip? or do MD-88 pilots only fly MD-88? or can they switch between 767 and MD-88 if they are trained to do so?

From what I understand, FAs can switch aircraft flying a 738 on one trip and then a 767 on another. Is that typical?

Sure now that you hear we make the good toys here you might come visit *giggle*. One of the old old "blue box" Link simulators is actually on display at the airport here.

The binghamton area actually has a LOT of history...

EA Link, IBM was founded here, Endicott Johnson Shoes was born here, we are the Carousel Capital of the US (Carousels were made here and now there is a huge collection of the remaining ones here), not to mention wineries and so on. Oh yeah and BAE has a huge division here too and builds alot of military stuff out of that division!! We are not quite as redneck as you thought huh *grin*

On btw the deck, probably not needed anymore, I am looking at selling my current townhouse and buying a new one- total new construction they are just about to break ground on them. I may own one of the first two units constructed.

You might be ok as long as we were in the air....now lets not talk about what I did to the airport infrastructure once we touched down...that rudder (foot) stuff is REALLLLLLLLYYY hard!!!!!!!! I have to admit after taking out most everything in sight in the 737 sim after landing I made a deal with Keith in the 777...he was the feet *smile*

Seriously though I could try getting in contact with Link and see if they do any tours or programs if a group of people wanted to come up and see the start of it all with the sims, Also the Roberson here has a permanent display about the history of EA Link.

A couple answers
 

As far as flying long distance, sims can fly the entire route and multiply airspeed by a desired number. 300knots become 900knts and you really boogy to where your going. Or they can place you in a Lat/Long and you fly off from there. Then we have canned positions, at the gate, runway, approach 2, 6, 8, or 12 miles out. So there is no need to fly an entire route. Mostly they fly in and out of certain airports and do required manuevuers. Practice emergency procedures.
Pilots are trained on like equiptment. A MD88 and an MD90 can swap. A 767 could swap with a 757. I do not know how often this happens on the line. Delta and all airlines would like a common cockpit. This would reduce training and pilot costs. That is why Delta said they were going to only order Boeing. We will have to wait and see if this plays out.
Link made great sims. We had Link exclussively until they were joined with Miles. The Brits pushed the MST concept and we got 2 MST's. Northwest got 10 MST's. They were a complete British mess. We ended up throwing Link/Miles off the property and getting the sims working ourselves. This is what sunk Link. What was left was bought by CAE. We still have 1 MD88 MST, but it is not a favorite.
As far as toe-brakes. I thought we were pedaling a bike not stopping an airplane.
Keith

I'm offended - you didn't even mention the most important company in the area :D Ever read anything about US101 in your local papers? :D

I'll take a chance on the auto-pilot and the "auto-land" facility, but thanks for the offer :D

This question is not specific to simulators, but you likely know the answer. All the talk about using foot pedals for high speed steering upon touch-down made me wonder...how are the brakes applied if the pilot's feet are busy steering? I always assumed the brakes were activated by foot pedals, but this no longer seems possible with only so many feet (and so many pedals) available in the cockpit. What am I missing?

At the risk of correction (and this is fascinating stuff, thanks, Keith) - the pedals move in two axes - swivel to the left or right around a central point for steering, and then push down with the toes (like in a car) for braking on the left and right side bogeys.

At the top of the pedal is a brake........(if I'm remembering correctly)

Brakes
 

The aircraft and sims have 2 kinds of brakes, auto-brakes and toebrakes. In auto the brakes are applied automatically to a set point by a knob on the panel. Toebrakes are at the top of the rudder pedals and are applied with pressure from toes to the tops of the rudder pedals. They are tricky. You have to apply even pressure to the both rudder pedals to keep the plane going straight and to the tops of the pedals to keep the plane stopping straight.
Keith

Location
 

All Delta sims are in ATL. We have 3 Full Flight sim buildings and a Ground Training Center which has CAPT's & FTD's.
Keith

Toebrakes---that's the name I was looking for----and yes, they are very tricky.

CAPT's & FTD's???

Was on a (non-dl) flight tonight into BGM and little johnny flying the plane needed to go spend some more time in the sim.....he was almost as bad at the foot thing as I was *smile*. He was all over the runway, and his taxi'ing was HORRID.

Now my pilot into DTW was a pro, smoothest landing I have ever had, not even sure at one point we actually touched down it was so smooth

Not enitrely sure about CAPTs but FTD are Fixed Training Devices i.e. they have have no motion platform.

Just a small correction to some information above... Evans & Sutherland provided some of the more recent visuals (probably the ones seen by Lehava et al). The Evans & Sutherland simulation business was aquired by Rockwell Collins during May last year. I believe Rediffusion was ultimately aquired by Thales.

Hi, knfenimore, I'm an engineer who used to work for CAE and several other flight simulator manufacturers.

It’s called 6 degrees of Freedom, not because there are 6 hydraulic rams supporting the simulator, but because the simulator can move on 6 axes: Pitch, Yaw, Roll, Front-Back, Left-Right & up & down. These are the degrees (or axes) of freedom. Many much older simulators were only 3 DOF: Pitch, Yaw, Roll.

P.S. Have you even seen what happens when one of the hydraulic pipes comes loose from the RAM under pressure? I have, and you don't want to be anywhere near it!!

:eek: Hence the desire to move onto electric motion bases.

From Montreal to FLL. I guess the cold up there was getting a bit much huh?:D ;)