Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
(Post 30513119)
Presumably OP is planning to credit both flights to his/her DL FF account. |
It looks like the OP is aware of the EU visa rule where Americans have up to 90 days within six months visa-free.
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme
(Post 30513390)
It looks like the OP is aware of the EU visa rule where Americans have up to 90 days within six months visa-free.
For the record, these will be J tickets. I just want to make sure this will not backfire in any shape or form. |
Originally Posted by pvn
(Post 30513331)
what difference would this make
OP doesn't want to buy one UA ticket for these trips. |
Part of the fare rules for the first flight (April 8 to June 25) say the following:
COMBINABILITYDOUBLE OPEN JAWS NOT PERMITTED. END-ON-END NOT PERMITTED. SIDE TRIPS NOT PERMITTED APPLICABLE ADD-ON CONSTRUCTION IS ADDRESSED IN MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONSIs that what I have to worry about? |
Originally Posted by Dennis88
(Post 30513819)
Part of the fare rules for the first flight (April 8 to June 25) say the following:
COMBINABILITYDOUBLE OPEN JAWS NOT PERMITTED. END-ON-END NOT PERMITTED. SIDE TRIPS NOT PERMITTED APPLICABLE ADD-ON CONSTRUCTION IS ADDRESSED IN MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONSIs that what I have to worry about? Nested tickets do not violate the CoC. As LBJ explained, there may be an issue where you use them to evade a fare rule, the classic example being the Saturday night stay requirement (which is now often framed as a Sunday night stay requirement). None of that applies to this scenario. |
I did this for 3 years on AF/KL no problem. Same for LH. I have even had up to 4 tickets “open” at a time. Never an issue. The OP appears to have a Delta ticket and a KLM ticket so at that point who cares. Move along, nothing to see here. |
Thanks everyone for the re-assurance. Not only did it save my a few grand, it also meant that the flight I wanted was much more reasonable. Just booked all the flights and hope not to report back with a "whoops, that didn't work" message.
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Originally Posted by Dennis88
(Post 30513819)
Part of the fare rules for the first flight (April 8 to June 25) say the following:COMBINABILITY
DOUBLE OPEN JAWS NOT PERMITTED. END-ON-END NOT PERMITTED. SIDE TRIPS NOT PERMITTED APPLICABLE ADD-ON CONSTRUCTION IS ADDRESSED IN MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS Is that what I have to worry about? |
Taken at face value, OP is not evading a fare rule. Rather, OP Is taking advantage of POS faring which is perfectly fine.
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Originally Posted by Kacee
(Post 30513837)
No. Those are fare construction rules. They are inapplicable to this scenario. You don't have to worry about anything.
Nested tickets do not violate the CoC. As LBJ explained, there may be an issue where you use them to evade a fare rule, the classic example being the Saturday night stay requirement (which is now often framed as a Sunday night stay requirement). None of that applies to this scenario. I also did it to Europe, JFK to Dublin The big problem for me was simply that when my plans changed I was doubly screwed. ALSO, the airline wants to know you have a Visa, the length of that visa is a different story. When asked about my length of stay, I gave them the dates I was leaving, in the OP's case, the following week. I also had one way tickets to Europe because I was leaving on a boat. During check-in, they would ask when and how I was departing and I would tell them and most of the time, the ticket agent would still ask supervisor, but it was never a problem, not once. Yo should never travel with a passport that expires soon (within 6 months), but having said that, they could not deny boarding if OP has second ticket returning in a week. |
Question about end-on end fare combinations
II have booked travel on two separate reservations and fear that I may have violated a prohibition on end-on-end combinations. I am hoping those of you who have a good grasp of fare rules can help. Apologies for the lengthy post but I want to provide sufficient detail.
I took advantage of a recent TATL promotional fare for flights between select cities to book JFK-CDG-JFK, leaving 01/18. For positioning, I also booked, on a separate PNR, xxx-JFK-xxx, where xxx is my Northeastern US home airport. Tickets were purchased on Delta.com. Flight 1: xxx-JFK (Ticket B) Flight 2: DL 262 JFK-CDG (Ticket A) departing 4 hours 50 minutes after arrival at JFK Flight 3: DL 263 CDG-JFK (Ticket A) Flight 4: JFK-xxx (Ticket B) overnight in NYC, departing the day after arrival from CDG Do I have an end-on-end combination of flights? Flights 3-4 cannot be booked as a legal connection but flights 1-2 could be. The fare rules for Ticket A: JFK-CDG-JFK, do not permit end-on-end combinations (fare basis code VQ2X86M3). The fare rules for Ticket B: xxx-JFK-xxx (fare basis code UA7UA0MJ) are less restrictive and permit some end-on-end combinations, but not my international route. If there is a problem, I want to deal with it now and not take any risks, so I called the Medallion line. The agent was unfamiliar with the term end-on-end, but said she would contact a supervisor, putting me on hold. When she returned, she advised that the “reissues department” examined my specific fights and said there was no problem with the combination. I still feel uncomfortable and am turning to knowledgeable members of the FT community for either assurance that all is good or suggestions regarding what I might do to. (FYI, I am not interested in tricks or subterfuge, just practical above-board suggestions.) Thanks. |
Originally Posted by OrangeLeaf
(Post 30602445)
II have booked travel on two separate reservations and fear that I may have violated a prohibition on end-on-end combinations. I am hoping those of you who have a good grasp of fare rules can help. Apologies for the lengthy post but I want to provide sufficient detail.
I took advantage of a recent TATL promotional fare for flights between select cities to book JFK-CDG-JFK, leaving 01/18. For positioning, I also booked, on a separate PNR, xxx-JFK-xxx, where xxx is my Northeastern US home airport. Tickets were purchased on Delta.com. Flight 1: xxx-JFK (Ticket B) Flight 2: DL 262 JFK-CDG (Ticket A) departing 4 hours 50 minutes after arrival at JFK Flight 3: DL 263 CDG-JFK (Ticket A) Flight 4: JFK-xxx (Ticket B) overnight in NYC, departing the day after arrival from CDG Do I have an end-on-end combination of flights? Flights 3-4 cannot be booked as a legal connection but flights 1-2 could be. The fare rules for Ticket A: JFK-CDG-JFK, do not permit end-on-end combinations (fare basis code VQ2X86M3). The fare rules for Ticket B: xxx-JFK-xxx (fare basis code UA7UA0MJ) are less restrictive and permit some end-on-end combinations, but not my international route. If there is a problem, I want to deal with it now and not take any risks, so I called the Medallion line. The agent was unfamiliar with the term end-on-end, but said she would contact a supervisor, putting me on hold. When she returned, she advised that the “reissues department” examined my specific fights and said there was no problem with the combination. I still feel uncomfortable and am turning to knowledgeable members of the FT community for either assurance that all is good or suggestions regarding what I might do to. (FYI, I am not interested in tricks or subterfuge, just practical above-board suggestions.) Thanks. Did you break the fare rules? Yes. Your fare prohibits end-on-end combinability and you booked separate tickets with the intent to circumvent the fare rules. Is there a risk that Delta will cancel your tickets? Virtually none. Airlines are too busy to strictly police fare rules, especially minor fare rules like combinability. The only issue that airlines seem to care about enough to crack down on are hidden city ticketing. What are the risks of what you've booked?
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Thank you. I appreciate the quick reply. It is the risk of cancellation that I fear. One more question about end-on-end combinations. Do they always involve two return flights? Would a one-way flight to JFK and traveling JFK-xxx by some other means, have avoided the violaton? (I recognize the risks associated with not being accommodated by Delta in the case of a missed connection would still exist.) |
The above is incorrect. End-on-end fare restrictions have to do with combining certain fares on a single ticket. In order to combine fares on the same ticket in such cases, you will typically need to upfare to a higher fare class that does not have the restrictions. There are no ticketing or fare rules violations if you simply book the cheaper fares on separate tickets. By the way, what you acutally have is a side-trip which is probably the fare combination restriction that is preventing the combination. This is the typical language that restricts this in the fare rules --
END-ON-END MUST BE AN A-B-A COMBINATION. SIDE TRIPS NOT PERMITTED. You are perhaps confusing these with back to back ticketing which is booking multiple tickets to meet the minimum stay requirements (typically a Saturday night) of the cheaper roundtrip fares but with no intent to meet the minimum stay requirements of the fares. This generally involves booking a roundtrip in the reverse direction and nesting it within another roundtrip fare. This is a prohibited ticketing practice. But this is not what you are doing here so your bookings are perfectly acceptable. While you are nesting fares, you are not doing it to subvert any minimum stay requirements in the fares, so there is nothing wrong with it at all. The main issue is that you are not as well protected in the event of schedule changes or IRROP's. |
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