BigFlyer

I just got upgraded to Gold thanks to the new MM rules, so all of a sudden the lounge admission rules have become relevant to me.

I had understood that Delta Gold and up had access to Skyteam lounges (except Delta lounges) when flying internationally on any Skyteam airline - including Delta. Apparently I was wrong. Footnote 9 on this page: https://www.delta.com/us/en/skymiles...dallion-status reads as follows:

(9) Diamond, Platinum and Gold Medallion Members traveling in any cabin on a same-day, international SkyTeam flight (excluding Delta-operated flights) receive access to SkyTeam lounges (SkyTeam partner-operated and SkyTeam branded lounges excluding Delta Sky Club; excludes travel to/from the Caribbean, Guam and Saipan when traveling in Main Cabin) for you and a guest as part of your SkyTeam Elite Plus benefits.

So as I read it - if you are an Elite+ travelling on a Delta operated international flight there is no access to any Skyteam lounges whether operated by Delta or another carrier. Is that how the lounge dragons are interpreting it - so no entry to KLM lounges in Amsterdam or Air France lounges in Paris when flying Delta?

Of course if you go to the Skyteam lounge website (https://www.skyteam.com/en/lounges/) there is no sign of the Delta restrictions - if you look up a Delta lounge it will tell you that all Elite+ passengers have access, with no verbiage the Delta members do no have access.

xliioper

It just looks like some sloppy wording and missing context. DL STE+ on DL operated flights don't get access to third-party operated lounges on international flights, but still get access to Skyteam partner operated lounges.

T-15.01

Would Delta STE+ in any class, get access to a DL Sky Club or be restricted on an itinerary from the US to Mexico? The ST entry criteria state:

• SkyTeam Elite Plus members, regardless of their travel class, are allowed access to a SkyTeam lounge at a particular airport if traveling on or connecting to/from a same-day international flight operated by a SkyTeam member airline. Simply present your boarding passes and a valid Elite Plus membership card for the lounge agent to validate for admission.

DL state:

STE+ members ("excluding Delta Medallion Members") gain access when flying internationally (except to Caribbean) +1 guest, but that Basic Economy is also excluded.

My read here is Delta STE+ members and those headed to the Caribbean and/or those in Basic Economy are all discriminated against and this seems contradictory to what Sky Team themselves are advertising.

findark

A Delta STE+ flying between the US and Mexico has access to a Sky Club if, and only if, they are confirmed in First or an equivalent class on a partner airline. Technically, Premium Select on the flight to Mexico would count, but this is not offered.

pvrMM3

Only if you are flying in the First Class Cabin as a STE+, then you get access to the Skyclub on your way to Mexico, and if they have an AeroMexico club at the airport you are flying from you can access it as well. I fly back and forth between the US and Mexico 20 or so times per year. Since I wasn't upgraded yesterday, I couldn't access the Skyclub at MSP, but two weeks earlier I was upgraded on my final leg (SLC to PVR) and I got access to the Skyclub at both my origination and connection.

xliioper

Since Skyteam website has a footnote on US-Caribbean flights that excludes them, it applies to all pax (not just DL STE+) -- https://www.skyteam.com/en/lounges/
This exclusion has been there for many years. At various points over the years, some of the other legacies have had exclusions for lounge access on Caribbean flights (and sometimes Canada and Mexico). AA does not currently provide access to AA Elites on AS flights to Canada, Mexico, and Caribbean.



At one point, they had another footnote for DL STE+ member access to Sky Clubs on international flights (requiring premium cabin flights for access), but it somehow got lost along the way. There's an FT post somewhere that mentions the footnote. As others have noted, you will need to be flying in FC (or PS) cabin now on international flights to access SC as a DL STE+ member.

ryw

This is a policy change made in December 2022. SkyClub Access Policy Changes (Dec 2022 Announcement)

It’s confusing, but basically for DL GM or higher, just traveling internationally doesn’t get you get access to the SkyClub anymore (though you can still access other skyteam lounges, such as if you’re connecting in CDG or AMS ). You need to be in PS or D1 for the SkyClub (or flying in domestic first to Canada/Mexico/Central America).

People with SkyTeam Elite+ status from a partner airline are not subject to the PS/D1 restriction on international itineraries.

T-15.01

Yeah my beef here is Sky Team promote that STE+ get in to Sky Team lounges on an an international itinerary in any class.

Delta say no to their own members if they're STE+ unless they're in F. Delta also exclude Caribbean itineraries.

The rules of entry conflict.

BigFlyer

My guess is the other Skyteam airlines don't object to the restriction because it has no effect on its members. As far as reciprocity goes, the other Skyteam carriers let in Delta elites because there elites can get into Skyclubs.

If Delta ever keeps non Delta Skyteam elites out of the Skyclubs, then the other Skyteam airlines would likely object.

HWGeeks

I am now confused; do I get club access in PE to Brazil?

xliioper

Yes. On international flights (except Caribbean), DL STE+ get DL SC access when flying in PE and FC cabins, but not in C+, Main, or BE. You also get access to ST partner lounges as long as they are actually operated by the partner (and not a third party) regardless of cabin of service (with the exception of the VS LHR Clubhouse where you must be in PE cabin and DL Plat or higher).

BigFlyer

The rule results in some strange results.

E.G., if flying Delta to Europe from JFK Terminal 4, a Gold flying Delta main cabin could not enter the Skyclub. But the same Gold could enter the Virgin lounge in the same terminal. You would think that would lead to overcrowding.

hhdl

They don't actually conflict, because ST rules don't apply when an airline is dealing with their own elites. The STE/STE+ status conferred with Medallion status only matters when flying other airlines or accessing other airlines' lounges. DL can't refuse to pay for you accessing an AFKL or KE lounge (unless they provide an alternative lounge), and they can't deny a Flying Blue STE+ (on a non-Caribbean international itinerary; note that SkyTeam doesn't consider US-Caribbean to be international) access to the SkyClub.

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T-15.01

I may be reading it wrong but without more specific clarity on the way its described, on the Sky Team entry FAQ and lounge finder pages, but I don't see anything in benefits afforded a STE+ member that restrict any lounge entry if flying with any Sky Team member airline to a Sky Team lounge, when on an international itinerary (as they deem international to be.) Certainly nothing that implies or directly states Delta STE+ passengers will be denied entry to Deltas lounges.

At any airport where Delta operate a Sky Club, using the Sky Team website to determine access rules and options, the Sky Club location(s) appear as permitted lounges for First or Business class passengers on an International member airline itinerary to enter, or, those who are on an International itinerary and who hold STE+ status.

E.g.:the following appears for both the LAX T2 and T3 Sky Clubs that Delta operate, on the Sky Team lounge finder website. No reference whatsoever to Delta being permitted to deny entry to any STE+ passenger, or one in First or Business class when on an international itinerary. So it seems somewhere along the line, they've decided or been permitted to diminish to a select group of STE+ passengers the value that the program is supposed to universally deliver.

Lounge access for international First or Business Class ticket holders or SkyTeam Elite Plus Frequent Flyers traveling on an international flight operated by the following airlines:AeroméxicoAir FranceChina AirlinesDelta Air LinesKLM Royal Dutch Airlines

I get that a passenger in the above case could head to TBIT and access KE instead but that requires some amount of foot travel and again, my beef is that it seems an arbitrary rule that Delta are imposing.

Are any other ST carriers also restricting access to their own elites in this way?

xliioper

You are beating a dead horse. (By the way, why do UA/AA allow lounge access on US domestic flights to partner elites, while denying access to their own elites? How is that fair?)

https://www.skyteam.com/en/legal-disclaimer/