Cheesemaster200

Folks, I am going to just come out and say it: I think Delta screwed up in not expanding the Terminal 4 to the extent that they were originally going to. I believe Delta was originally going to add sixteen full gates on the A-side of the terminal, but truncated the project to just ten regional gates. I do question that they are only used as regional however because I have taken transcon flights to SEA out of there. However the layout of the terminal is definitely in a "regional" configuration (i.e. cramped).

Since they have ceased operations at Terminal 2, flying in and out of JFK has been somewhat of a nightmare. I never thought I would miss Terminal 2, but I miss Terminal 2. Delta's operations are just overwhelmed in T4 right now on every level. B-Gate DSC is always two lines. TSA lines are apocalyptic on the main level (usually not on arrivals level, pro-tip). Just general crowding makes moving about the terminal stressful, and there is a lot of walking.

The average arrival into JFK goes somewhat like this, almost like clockwork:
- Pilot gets on intercom mid-flight and says they are anticipating a 60,45,or 30 minute early arrival onto the ground at JFK.
- Flight approaches NY airspace and takes a couple laps over the Atlantic ocean between long beach and sandy hook. "Remaining flight time" on display is stuck at 8-minutes for at least 25-20 minutes.
- Plane eventually lands, taxis excessively until you see T4 out the window getting farther away.
- Plane parks on taxiway adjacent to 4L/22R and pilot gets over intercom saying that we are so early that our gate is occupied!
- Sit on runway for 15-20 minutes, if you are lucky the pilot will let you move around to use the restroom.
- Eventually you taxi over to what I have termed the T4 "time out" spot between the B and A gates, which is notably not anywhere near the recently "unoccupied" Gate B55 of which you are supposedly going into. Sit there for another 10-minutes.
- Finally taxi over to the unoccupied gate, only to then realize that even though the previous occupant just left there is nobody to operate the jet bridge. Wait another 15-minutes.
- Eventually deplane 20-minutes late, somehow, after landing literally an hour early.
- Receive phone notification from Delta announcing an early arrival!
- Walk the literal quarter mile back to the headhouse because your arrival gate is B55, of course.
- Get to Airtrain only to realize that it is running on 30-minute headway due to the T1 and T5 construction.
- Annoyed, you just get a taxi and get stuck on traffic on Van Wyck due to bridge construction at 11PM at night.

A lot of this is just overall JFK congestion and air-traffic control woes, but I also think Delta has a gate availability problem. That is, their gate utilization is too high. On top of this I think they are padding their schedules to account for the madness which is why flights always arrive "early". Does anyone know if they are going to continue with their half-project for T4 gate expansion?

xliioper

2 out of the 10 new A gates are designed to handle mainline. However, I suspect you flew out of the end of T4B which was desgined for regionals and is very cramped, but is now used for mainline (and the SEA flights frequently fly out of these gates). I think it's pretty clear that DL did not fully anticipate the rebound in travel demand post-Covid (particularly leisure demand) and is probably regretting downsizing the expansion project.

dw

Arriving in an Uber two weeks ago at 6 am on a Saturday, I was shocked to see the traffic jam of cars approaching the terminal for drop off. I had the driver drop me off at arrivals instead- he said this was pretty common these days, and that it frequently took him an extra 20-30 minutes to get to the terminal, if going to departures.

I was really surprised that it was even worse than what I’m accustomed to seeing at LAX.

DLASflyer

Rest assured Delta foot the bill for dozens more massive gate areas in SLC that open in a couple weeks and won’t really be needed for decades.

ty97

JFK T4 has always been terrible. It's why I never understood people cheering the demise of T2.

Cheesemaster200

T2 was a dump, but you cleared security near instantly and had no walk to the gate. It was entirely functional but depressing to fly out of.

gabriel2

For incoming international to domestic connections you have the added problem of lines at immigration control which make even a 2-hour layover insufficient in many cases. You walk for 15 min, queue at immigration for 1h, then take 30-60 min through security before walking another 15 min to a gate so far from the security check that it might as well be in another terminal. If the incoming flight is delayed on a 2h layover itinerary, DL won't even re-check your bag and direct you straight to the re-ticketing desk.

Repooc17

Eh, T4 has been like that during certain hours of the day even before the demise of T2 and new T4 gates.

There is a separate security flow by the airside exit with no checked luggage. It is sometimes used to facilitate international arrival connections.

gabriel2

Do you mean for people traveling internationally with a carry on? As in, go through immigration but instead of exiting the bag claim, you go through security? Might be useful for short trips I guess.

Buster CT1K

Thanks for the review of Delta ops at JFK. Not that Delta prices are attractive from JFK. Plus their repeated gutting of Skymiles program. Glad I’m not a regular user of Delta from JFK.

audio-nut

What thoughtful and detailed analysis. I guess all the current bus gates are imaginary.

Repooc17

All international arrivals with domestic connections must recheck their checked luggage anyway. Short or long trip is moot; just saying there is a security checkpoint on the arrival level in addition to the departure level.

gabriel2

So you have to exit the bag claim either way. Who is qualified to use the arrival level checkpoint? My reference to the short trip was based on the assumption that the security checkpoint is in the international bag claim area before the exit which doesn't seem to be the case. If such checkpoint existed, you could theoretically use it on short trips by not checking a bag and taking your carry on through security.

Repooc17

It doesn't matter if the trip is short or long. When you come to the US from non-precleared airports outside the US, everyone has to go through immigration and custom (CBP), pick up bags (if applicable), for those with connections, re-check bags (if applicable), and then clear security with TSA.

gabriel2

Yes, I understand that and have gone through this tens of times at JFK and other airports. As I mentioned, my reference to the short trip was based on your earlier comment referring to 'a separate security flow by the airside exit with no checked luggage'. I interpreted this, incorrectly, as a security checkpoint allowing passengers without checked bags to go straight from immigration to security. If such option existed, it would be suited to short trips (as in short in duration) without the necessity to check a bag. I'm still not clear on what you meant by no checked luggage though or who is qualified to use the arrivals-level checkpoint.