Anyone read the WSJ article today on Delta?
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Posts: 1,689
Anyone read the WSJ article today on Delta?
Apologies I don't want to post a paywalled article, but it's probably available via syndication. Again, sorry it's paywalled.
https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/travel...d=hp_lead_pos8
alternatively: https://apple.news/AB0BwuPYOTJeFpzGqikpbIw
https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/travel...d=hp_lead_pos8
alternatively: https://apple.news/AB0BwuPYOTJeFpzGqikpbIw
#3
Join Date: Dec 2009
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I don’t disagree with either of the anecdotes they put forth. However, neither are really a threat to most of the loyalty chasers here on FT.
Customer A runs a business on his CCs so hits DM on that spend. Customer B buys F tickets and a club membership anyway…I’d say Customer A isn’t a threat as he doesn’t fly much and customer B pays for F and the skyclub, so really isn’t relevant to the loyalty rewards game anyway.
IMO Customer A is a fool. Could be getting far more benes from a CC with that kind of spend. Seriously, leaving like tens of thousands of dollars on the table. But I suppose that’s the folks DL is courting with their changes…people who don’t yet realize that status doesnt mean much and means even less every devaluation.
Customer A runs a business on his CCs so hits DM on that spend. Customer B buys F tickets and a club membership anyway…I’d say Customer A isn’t a threat as he doesn’t fly much and customer B pays for F and the skyclub, so really isn’t relevant to the loyalty rewards game anyway.
IMO Customer A is a fool. Could be getting far more benes from a CC with that kind of spend. Seriously, leaving like tens of thousands of dollars on the table. But I suppose that’s the folks DL is courting with their changes…people who don’t yet realize that status doesnt mean much and means even less every devaluation.
#4
Join Date: May 2011
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IMO Customer A is a fool. Could be getting far more benes from a CC with that kind of spend. Seriously, leaving like tens of thousands of dollars on the table. But I suppose that’s the folks DL is courting with their changes…people who don’t yet realize that status doesnt mean much and means even less every devaluation.
It is the same situation with people who call those who put all spend on something like an Amex Platinum "fools" or "clueless." Some of the most intelligent, successful people out there spend zero time and effort maximizing credit cards.
#5
Join Date: Apr 2003
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This is exactly the crowd that DL is going after. People that are too busy to bother and don't comparison shop. People that want to get some value from Skymiles and notice when devaluations occur are officially tossed to the side.
#6
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,459
This is a consistent theme across Flyertalk that I don't really like / agree with. Customer A may be leaving "tens of thousands" on the table - but what is tens of thousands of dollars annually to Customer A, who appears to be a very successful businessman? Maybe he likes his Delta lounges, flights to Hawaii, route network, etc. Maybe that is worth $10,000 a year to him, which may not be that money to him anyway.
It is the same situation with people who call those who put all spend on something like an Amex Platinum "fools" or "clueless." Some of the most intelligent, successful people out there spend zero time and effort maximizing credit cards.
It is the same situation with people who call those who put all spend on something like an Amex Platinum "fools" or "clueless." Some of the most intelligent, successful people out there spend zero time and effort maximizing credit cards.
What Customer B gets from status is unclear.
Some hoped for more upgrades, but the main thread here on the changes notes that with FCM upgrades are hard to come by for everyone. As someone said, your odds of an upgrade might go from 1/60 to 1/30, but you're still not likely to get the upgrade.
Less crowded lounges would be nice, but DL could have changed lounge access without changing status criteria.
The article's writer said her email is running 10 to 1 against the changes.
#7
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: New York, NY
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This is a consistent theme across Flyertalk that I don't really like / agree with. Customer A may be leaving "tens of thousands" on the table - but what is tens of thousands of dollars annually to Customer A, who appears to be a very successful businessman? Maybe he likes his Delta lounges, flights to Hawaii, route network, etc. Maybe that is worth $10,000 a year to him, which may not be that money to him anyway.
It is the same situation with people who call those who put all spend on something like an Amex Platinum "fools" or "clueless." Some of the most intelligent, successful people out there spend zero time and effort maximizing credit cards.
It is the same situation with people who call those who put all spend on something like an Amex Platinum "fools" or "clueless." Some of the most intelligent, successful people out there spend zero time and effort maximizing credit cards.
#8
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 5,417
If tens of thousands don't matter to Customer A, he should be flying F or D1 and buying lounge access and wouldn't really need status. $350,000 spend is an easy $7,000 from a 2% cashback card and I wonder if the benefits of status are worth that. It does not take much focus to notice this, especially if you're focused enough to be aware of status and qualification criteria.
What Customer B gets from status is unclear.
Some hoped for more upgrades, but the main thread here on the changes notes that with FCM upgrades are hard to come by for everyone. As someone said, your odds of an upgrade might go from 1/60 to 1/30, but you're still not likely to get the upgrade.
Less crowded lounges would be nice, but DL could have changed lounge access without changing status criteria.
The article's writer said her email is running 10 to 1 against the changes.
What Customer B gets from status is unclear.
Some hoped for more upgrades, but the main thread here on the changes notes that with FCM upgrades are hard to come by for everyone. As someone said, your odds of an upgrade might go from 1/60 to 1/30, but you're still not likely to get the upgrade.
Less crowded lounges would be nice, but DL could have changed lounge access without changing status criteria.
The article's writer said her email is running 10 to 1 against the changes.
Last edited by sydneyracquelle; Sep 27, 2023 at 10:13 am
#9
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: B6 Mosaic, Bonvoy LT Titanium (x SPG LT), IHG Spire, UA Silver
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This cardholder Customer A is no fool. He foregoes $7,000 in cashback but he gets 450,000 SM on the DL corporate reserve on $350k spend (corporate card pays 1.5 SM/$ spent after 150,000) with the 15% Amex discount this gives him $5,500+ of DL ticket value. The 4 GUCs plus the $500 choice benefit Amex payment plus the 25k RDM choice benefit plus the FC companion cert plus the unlimited SC plus DM status during IROPS and faster phone service is well worth the other $1,500. After $150k spend on the corporate reserve the 1.5 SM is worth about 2 cents with the 15% Amex discount.
This assumes that the person is also diligent about maximizing the most value from the points which is unlikely. That spend could also just yield a one way in business from JFK to LHR which could be purchased directly for $2,000 or less. This is DL's strategy to keep those people that don't pay attention to the value of the points within their ecosystem. Every year they can devalue points and monetize the "elite" benefits giving less and less value to it and a certain percentage of people will either not notice or not care.
A 15% discount off escalating award pricing is still not a great value. Being so attached to a brand that does not care about the majority of its customers is not a healthy relationship.
#11
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: NYC/DC
Programs: AA,SPG, Delta, Amtrak, JB
Posts: 978
The article is about those DL customers who do not mind the change. One such was asked for his comment . For the purpose of transparency, the following excerpt is taken from the article."It’s all noise to Mike K. He’s had Delta’s top Medallion status, diamond, for the past few years and has already sewn it up for 2024. He stopped worrying about the outlook for 2025 when Delta released details on Sept. 13.
Mike K, whose company sells hunting cameras and accessories online, runs enough business and personal expenses through his two premium Delta SkyMiles credit cards to earn top-tier status in the current program. He also meets the substantially higher threshold, $350,000 a year, of the new program and will be exempt from lounge-visit limits due to his card spending."
He states the following:
"He hopes the new steps reduce lounge waits, increase flight upgrades and, just maybe, lower mileage-redemption rates: “If the amount of people stick to their word and jump ship—which I doubt they will—then flight prices may go down and I can get more value to my miles.’’
The article also states the following:
The spending on Delta’s Amex cards is staggering—nearly 1% of the entire U.S. gross domestic product, Chief Executive Ed Bastian said in June. The airline hopes these changes generate an even larger gusher of cash.
Delta will collect nearly $7 billion in revenue from American Express this year from the sale of miles, ancillary services and brand fees. Its long-term goal is $10 billion. That’s nearly equal to the amount the airline generated from flying passengers in 2022."
https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/travel...unges-1cbcbb66
Mike K, whose company sells hunting cameras and accessories online, runs enough business and personal expenses through his two premium Delta SkyMiles credit cards to earn top-tier status in the current program. He also meets the substantially higher threshold, $350,000 a year, of the new program and will be exempt from lounge-visit limits due to his card spending."
He states the following:
"He hopes the new steps reduce lounge waits, increase flight upgrades and, just maybe, lower mileage-redemption rates: “If the amount of people stick to their word and jump ship—which I doubt they will—then flight prices may go down and I can get more value to my miles.’’
The article also states the following:
"Big spenders
Beginning next year for the 2025 travel year, Delta will have just one metric for earning status: money. Money spent on Delta tickets, vacation packages, hotels and car rentals booked through Delta and spending on Delta’s SkyMiles credit cards.The spending on Delta’s Amex cards is staggering—nearly 1% of the entire U.S. gross domestic product, Chief Executive Ed Bastian said in June. The airline hopes these changes generate an even larger gusher of cash.
Delta will collect nearly $7 billion in revenue from American Express this year from the sale of miles, ancillary services and brand fees. Its long-term goal is $10 billion. That’s nearly equal to the amount the airline generated from flying passengers in 2022."
https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/travel...unges-1cbcbb66
#12
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"He hopes the new steps reduce lounge waits, increase flight upgrades and, just maybe, lower mileage-redemption rates: “If the amount of people stick to their word and jump ship—which I doubt they will—then flight prices may go down and I can get more value to my miles.’’
#13
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 5,417
This assumes that the person is also diligent about maximizing the most value from the points which is unlikely. That spend could also just yield a one way in business from JFK to LHR which could be purchased directly for $2,000 or less. This is DL's strategy to keep those people that don't pay attention to the value of the points within their ecosystem. Every year they can devalue points and monetize the "elite" benefits giving less and less value to it and a certain percentage of people will either not notice or not care.
A 15% discount off escalating award pricing is still not a great value. Being so attached to a brand that does not care about the majority of its customers is not a healthy relationship.
A 15% discount off escalating award pricing is still not a great value. Being so attached to a brand that does not care about the majority of its customers is not a healthy relationship.
#14
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: B6 Mosaic, Bonvoy LT Titanium (x SPG LT), IHG Spire, UA Silver
Posts: 5,893
Having more competition in ATL would save him far more money than the miles earned on a DL credit card. If the goal is to get a free ticket to Hawaii, walk up fares from the West Coast to Hawaii have been going for $139 each way. Even from ATL they are not that high so charging $100,000s on a card to get a few free tickets to HI is great for DL, not so great a value for the passenger. Using an AMEX card to get hotel points even would gain far more value as the expensive part of a Hawaii trip is the place to stay, not the plane ticket to get there.
#15
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 5,417
It is not a question of ignorance, it is a question of not paying attention. Most people redeem miles for very low value. How do you think the programs stay afloat?
Having more competition in ATL would save him far more money than the miles earned on a DL credit card. If the goal is to get a free ticket to Hawaii, walk up fares from the West Coast to Hawaii have been going for $139 each way. Even from ATL they are not that high so charging $100,000s on a card to get a few free tickets to HI is great for DL, not so great a value for the passenger. Using an AMEX card to get hotel points even would gain far more value as the expensive part of a Hawaii trip is the place to stay, not the plane ticket to get there.
Having more competition in ATL would save him far more money than the miles earned on a DL credit card. If the goal is to get a free ticket to Hawaii, walk up fares from the West Coast to Hawaii have been going for $139 each way. Even from ATL they are not that high so charging $100,000s on a card to get a few free tickets to HI is great for DL, not so great a value for the passenger. Using an AMEX card to get hotel points even would gain far more value as the expensive part of a Hawaii trip is the place to stay, not the plane ticket to get there.