paul21

Delta and Korean Air both sell F tickets on the same flights ICN<->USA, for the same price, but they are not the same experience. For example, DL7851 operating as KE35 ICN-ATL differences for F:

• DL7851 does not get KAL First Class lounge access
  • No name tag either
  • Miler Club Lounge only
• DL7851 does not get KAL Premium Care Service
  • No usage of the crew security line at ICN
  • No escort to the lounge
• DL7851 cannot pre-book pajamas (not a big deal obviously)
  • Seat selection is fine, did not try special meals

These tickets are the exact same price on both Korean Air and Delta at ~7 million KRW. None of the differences are advertised, and the language is quite confusing especially for the lounge rules which simply say "Eligible Passengers: First Class passengers" on the KAL English website. Just giving a heads up to anyone who might be paying cash for these flights in the future, and I think it's a failure of the spirit of the joint venture.


The benefit of DL flight numbers is the published routing rules on DL over the maximum permitted mileage (MPM) routing rules on KE. This can allow you to book something like ICN-ATL-SNA with a free stopover and without the 25% MPM surcharge by using DL numbers.

Buster CT1K

Not surprising that DL is so poor at this. They are becoming more like UA: the airline that doesn't really care.

GagaPilot

You need to remember here that DL does not have any "First Class" on international routes. They have "business class" which equates to Delta One on DL operated flights and Prestige Class on KE operated flights. If you want true F, you need to purchase via KE directly and fly on a KE marketed/operated ticket on a route and aircraft that KE offers F. Purchasing a ticket on DL7851 is really just buying a J ticket on delta, which equates to Prestige on Korean.

I agree that to someone not well-versed in the specifics of what each airline offers, this can be misleading. But it's unfortunately correct.

HeadInTheClouds

Maybe. But you can certainly purchase an AF La Premiere ticket using a DL flight number, and it comes with all the bells and whistles it should.

GagaPilot

That may be true for AF and the La Premiere product. Never flown them before, and have thus never researched tickets, so can’t give an opinion either way.

However in OP’s case, when booking DL 7850/7851 between ATL and ICN, on 006 DL ticket stock, it clearly states you are purchasing a ticket in Prestige, not First Class. One might assume they are the same, but in fact they are not and each come with different benefits.

HeadInTheClouds

I'm like you in reverse, not able to offer any advice on KE. But for the DL codeshared AF flights, if you book the DL flight number, classes F & P are available on the flights that have La Premiere. These codes are not available on non La Premiere AF aircraft. But I did book it earlier this year (you have to call and specifically ask for the fare class), and it came with all the La Premiere benefits it should. "La Premiere" even prints out on all the Delta itinerary info (despite DL not having an F product). Sounds like you're saying that's not how it works on a KE flight.

I can say that I would have been similarly upset as the OP if I specifically booked the F fare class and was denied the benefits.

FWIW, I recall there used to be a similar thing with UA/LX that if you booked the UA code, LX would deny F lounge access at ZRH. Don't know if that's still the case though.

TerryK

Some passengers are required to book DL coded flights due to Fly America Act.

xliioper

DL does not have any P class fares that book into La Premiere cabin on AF as DL coded P class is used for Premium Economy fares these days (along with A and G classes). DL only has fares that book into F class for AF La Premiere. You can potentially puchase an AF P fare on delta.com as part of 006 ticket, but those flights will be AF coded, not DL coded. Interestingly, the DL earnings chart on delta.com no longer even lists F class for DL coded flights (only J).

DLHubber

And they should not be flying in KE Prestige or AF La Premiere on my tax dollars anyway. So I’m just fine with that.

HeadInTheClouds

You are correct. I went back to my ticket and it was in F, which was the AF discounted La Premiere class. Miles posted normally, FWIW.

Reason I wanted the DL coded flight was the mileage earning rate, esp with the 75k cap gone, was much more lucrative.

paul21

No this is not the case at all. Delta can and does offer "First" as an upgrade over "Prestige" on these KE-operated flights.




Clicking that gives "Refundable First (F)" that books into FOWEB fare basis:


It books into true KE First, for the same price as KE First on KE's own website. The limitations I mentioned above are purely due to KE's stance on marketing carriers / codeshares. I'm of the opinion that Delta shouldn't offer FOWEB given those restrictions, or if they do offer it, it should have the same service level as the KE-booked FOW fare. Since Delta lacks a true First, their information is quite limited about the product, but it takes a real KE scholar to decipher the restrictions on ground services due to the codeshare.

GagaPilot

Interesting. I did not know that you could purchase an upgrade into F on a KE operated flight via DL.com. I just assumed you were referring to Prestige as F since many don’t know the difference. My apologies.

And based off your experience, it’s literally just the seat. No other ground perks. This is a good datapoint for others to just book directly with KE then.

I remember years ago buying Y on KE operated / DL marketed flights and struggled to get advance seat assignments because whatever fare bucket the DL flight mapped into, KE advance selection wasn’t allowed. Seems like I usually got something in the last row to stick when getting the partners desk involved, but it was a pain.

I’ve got some upcoming KE operated / DL marketed segments, all in J (Prestige) but don’t see the F upgrade offer. Then again all are intra-Asia and I don’t think those routes always offer true F. Will keep an eye out and remember the restrictions above.

Another example of how Delta keeps declining and not providing a “premium and seamless” experience.

rylan

Wait a second... so DL was selling the ticket as KE first but you didn't get the pre-flight benefits, just the seat? What kind of crappy bait and switch is that?
What did the ticket actually show for class? Or was KE being their own version of KL 'sorry that is not possible' rules sticklers?

If you are seated on KE First Class, you should be the first class lounge and other associated airport departure benefits. I'm not aware of a 'First Class Minus' with just the seat and nothing else. Did they even let you in the normal KE lounge?

duluthDL

I've bought several trips with DL marketed La Premiere AF operated flights. I did get all of the usual La Premiere benefits. There are two ways that I've done it: call DL and explain what you want to do; or do it on the DL website, select refundable business class and finally accept the upgrade option at the end (sometimes it's the same price but sometimes the latter is cheaper). I received the usual mileage for a DL marketed flight. (I've also bought the flights from AF and received the DL partner mileage from DL in that case).

paul21

Yes just the seat despite paying the same price. We were traveling as a group of 3, 2x KE flight numbers and 1x DL flight numbers with all three in First/F seated in the F cabin with regular F service inflight. The 2xKE booked the KAL Premium care (the 1x DL was unable to over the phone), and at the airport, they made a "one-time exception" to allow the DL-coded passenger through the expedited security line since we were travelling together. They made a point that since it was not a KE flight it was not included.

Then at the lounge, they said only the 2 of us could go into the First Class lounge, and the DL-coded person could only access Miler Club Lounge (the check-in agent asked for an exception but was denied). It was a bit awkward to have different ground service just based on the marketing carrier--we all sat in the Miler Club Lounge. They came by and made the metal name tags for the 2 of us on KE numbers.

I assume the same applies to any of their codeshare partners, not just DL, but I made this post because the delta.com website will clearly upsell to First without mentioning any of this while charging the same fare as the KE website for the same flights (subject to the MPM vs. published routing above). I had learned of the shortcomings of the KAL Premium Care after calling and finding an obscure travel guide that said codeshares couldn't get that service, but the lounge access was a mystery until we were at the airport and was a bit unexpected.