JFK - Closure of T2 and New T4 Gates

Old Dec 15, 2021, 5:35 pm
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JFK - Closure of T2 and New T4 Gates

Groundbreaking was today for the JFK T4 expansion. With 10 new gates, Delta will no longer need T2. This was originally announced in February 2030 but got delayed.

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/gov...mation-project
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Old Dec 15, 2021, 6:14 pm
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These renderings look bleak. The 10 new gates on the A concourse are basically going to be in a windowless, low-ceilinged, ground-level holding pen. Even with the sparkly images, it basically looks like the old basement RJ gates in the now-demolished Terminal C East at LGA.

And hooray, we're getting a whopping one new baggage carousel for domestic arrivals... at the furthest possible point in the headhouse from the gates on the B Concourse. Of course, if you're coming from the A gates, you won't have as far to walk, but don't worry, you'll still waste time -- since the gates are all at ground level, the tug pulling the cart with your baggage will be held up every time a plane pushes back from a gate!

All this for the low, low price of $1.5 billion. Just amazing.
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Old Dec 15, 2021, 6:56 pm
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How much extra would it cost to raise the ceiling by 10 feet and add some windows? The shared gate hallways for multiple jet bridges are interesting. I guess another cost saving thing.
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Old Dec 15, 2021, 7:06 pm
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I thought we were getting a new SC too?
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Old Dec 15, 2021, 7:09 pm
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If Terminal 4 gets any longer it'd be easier to walk to my destination then to the last gates.
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Old Dec 15, 2021, 7:14 pm
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Originally Posted by Duke787
I thought we were getting a new SC too?
That's in the plans... it's not mentioned in the press release, but they are adding one in the A Concourse. Though at this price tag, it better be gold-plated.
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Old Dec 15, 2021, 7:20 pm
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Originally Posted by cubeman
If Terminal 4 gets any longer it'd be easier to walk to my destination then to the last gates.
Well, the B concourse isn't getting any longer, thankfully, but if you're connecting at JFK from B51 to the new A15, you're looking at almost a full mile of walking.

Oh, and about those last gates... they're getting converted to narrowbody gates in this phase. So soon even people booking mainline departures will get to experience the joy of gate B51.

Last edited by ohhleary; Dec 15, 2021 at 7:27 pm
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Old Dec 15, 2021, 7:53 pm
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Yay!!! That's great news! That means all non-alliance airlines to move out of T4. Delta and Skyteam partners will be at entire T4. AF, KLM, KE, AM, VS, SU, SV, ITA, KQ, LATAM will be there. Whether who wants to join SkyTeam alliance.
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Old Dec 15, 2021, 8:11 pm
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That block of prefab does look quite drab, and potentially very crowded on the inside.

When the plan for the A extension was phased and cut in half (last year?), I thought I read that the new gates on A would only be for regional jets. The rendering definitely shows mainline, and the press release refers to "primarily serving regional and domestic flights."

One item of note from the rendering: it looks like a bus station is being planned, but that's only useful if DL ever reopens the station at B54.



As long as I can dream, another jitney stop near B31 would be phenomenal, especially for A-B connections, rather than having to walk to one of the extreme ends of the concourse.

edit: adding the slide below from this April, which might be of interest.


Last edited by ekozie; Dec 15, 2021 at 8:17 pm
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Old Dec 15, 2021, 8:35 pm
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Wasn't the original plan to build out the A concourse (not as far out as B), but still? I wonder if the new plan is to move all the regionals over to the new one-story A expansion and make B a full mainline operation.
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Old Dec 15, 2021, 8:43 pm
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Wow, this looks a lot more shortsighted than the original plan for the A gates, and once it is in place it will be nigh-on impossible to replace it with something better.

I understand money is tight right now, but this facility is exactly in the mold of the stereotypically crowded, unattractive and unpleasant NYC area airports we just spent a decade and a few billion dollars trying to upgrade.

Here's hoping someone with an ounce of vision pulls the brakes on this project and convinces the folks involved to do it right.
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Old Dec 15, 2021, 9:00 pm
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Originally Posted by BenA
Wow, this looks a lot more shortsighted than the original plan for the A gates, and once it is in place it will be nigh-on impossible to replace it with something better.

I understand money is tight right now, but this facility is exactly in the mold of the stereotypically crowded, unattractive and unpleasant NYC area airports we just spent a decade and a few billion dollars trying to upgrade.

Here's hoping someone with an ounce of vision pulls the brakes on this project and convinces the folks involved to do it right.
Seriously. You'd think someone would at least pull the brakes on releasing these renderings. Can't believe no one said, "hey, maybe we should choose some renderings that make this holding room look less like the basement of the terminal we just demolished at LaGuardia."
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Old Dec 15, 2021, 9:02 pm
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Originally Posted by Yellowjj
Wasn't the original plan to build out the A concourse (not as far out as B), but still? I wonder if the new plan is to move all the regionals over to the new one-story A expansion and make B a full mainline operation.
That's not quite the plan, but close. Two of the ten new gates in A will be able to accommodate mainline jets, but they're also converting the regional gates at the end of B to accommodate mainline narrowbodies.
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Old Dec 15, 2021, 9:42 pm
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I'm just short of incredulous that they would build a one-story terminal with jetways that slope up to the aircraft, even regional jets. There is nothing really wrong with that, but my little local airport, ELM, tore down its one-story terminal and replaced it with a two-story departure area, requiring walking up a ramp to the security check and then down a jetway to the aircraft.
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Old Dec 15, 2021, 9:54 pm
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I really hate the walk from the B-gates to baggage, especially since my late-night return from LAX always seems to park closer to the regional jets end of the B-concourse (since there are planes headed internationally that are leaving from the closer gates). Sometimes it's 10-15 minutes to walk from the gate, then all the way across to the opposite end of the terminal to take the escalator down to baggage claim, which is no fun at midnight after a 5-hour flight.

As a life-long New Yorker, I am confident in saying, only the Port Authority could create such an illogical layout for an airport. Yeah, I know JFK (formerly Idlewild) pre-dates me, but the fact they expanded piece-by-piece really leaves us with a complicated maze that really makes no sense. This is the epitome of what you get when you have no preconceived plan!

FWIW, I just took Jetblue and the walk from the gates to the main part of the terminal isn't too bad, but the walk to the Air Train is CRAZY LONG! It felt like we walked more than 15 minutes with our bags! Now I know why my friends that fly JB think I'm nuts for parking in JFK long-term and taking the Air Train to the terminal.
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