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Question on interpretation of fare rules

Question on interpretation of fare rules

Old Dec 19, 2022, 9:32 pm
  #1  
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Question on interpretation of fare rules

Hello DL experts! I need your advice to interpret a Delta fare rule for voluntary changes since Delta apparently doesn't honor their own rules in my interpretation.

I booked four international roundtrip flights in business class in September using Amex IAP. The outbound flight had only 3 seats available in Z, so I booked the trip as two separate reservations.

Reservation 1: 1 passenger, Outbound in I fare, return in Z fare.
Reservation 2: 3 passengers, both outbound and return in Z fare.

Now, the outbound flight has a ticket available in Z fare. My fare rules for the original booking says:

Expand spoiler to read the fare rules. Both the Z and I fare have the same clauses for flight changes.
Spoiler
 


Now, I want to change the 1 passenger from I fare to Z fare on the outbound to get $$$ back as credit. If I want to change the outbound from I fare to Z fare on the same flight for the first reservation, it seems they should reprice using the fare effective on the date of the original booking and should be able to book the Z class inventory that is available. The flight leaves in 4 days. The I fare basis needs a 10-day advance booking and the Z fare needs a 14 day advance booking. However, according to the first set of clauses for booking change in the fare rules, they should measure the ADV RES from original ticket date to departure of pricing unit. Is this correct?

Amex Travel says they cannot do that, they would only reprice fares as of today and only I fare is available. Two different Amex agents who called two different Delta agents and came back to me with the same response. I've made this type of change with other airlines where they would reprice using fares available on the date of original booking. Does the DL fare rule mean something different and is my interpretation incorrect? Thanks you for your comments.

Last edited by nort; Dec 19, 2022 at 10:15 pm Reason: clarification
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Old Dec 19, 2022, 10:15 pm
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Pretty sure the agents are correct. It would be repriced as of today, thus not meeting the advance purchase requirement.

I would honestly just let it go. I had a similar, but domestic, purchase the other day. Bought an I fare, and a few days later the Z fare opened up. Sure I could take a credit and rebook, but honestly not wanting the hassle. In your case its not an option, and wouldnt stress over it. Enjoy the trip instead!
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Old Dec 19, 2022, 11:13 pm
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Thanks GagaPilot The first set of clauses for repricing says: 5. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM ORIGINAL TKT DATE TO DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT

Based on this rule 5, it seems my change would meet the advance purchase requirement, yes? Am I interpreting this incorrectly?

I've had other airlines honor such clauses in their rules, so I'm not sure what's different about this clause in Delta's rules. I'm thinking of switching my FF program to DL. I'm not going to lose sleep over one ticket. But I want to understand whether Delta interprets their rules correctly to make that decision.
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Old Dec 19, 2022, 11:57 pm
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Originally Posted by nort
Thanks GagaPilot The first set of clauses for repricing says: 5. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM ORIGINAL TKT DATE TO DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT

Based on this rule 5, it seems my change would meet the advance purchase requirement, yes? Am I interpreting this incorrectly?

I've had other airlines honor such clauses in their rules, so I'm not sure what's different about this clause in Delta's rules. I'm thinking of switching my FF program to DL. I'm not going to lose sleep over one ticket. But I want to understand whether Delta interprets their rules correctly to make that decision.
I believe this specific clause comes into play if you were to be involuntarily downgraded by DL. If you were forced to fly Main Cabin, DL would refund the fare difference based on date of purchase (original ticket date).

For a voluntary change, the best you can do is to cancel and take a credit, and rebook at current rates. In this case its too close in to get a Z fare.

Basically just because a flight has Z inventory, doesnt necessarily mean you can switch into
it without honoring the fare rules, in this case the advance purchase requirement.
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Old Dec 20, 2022, 12:11 am
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Originally Posted by GagaPilot
I believe this specific clause comes into play if you were to be involuntarily downgraded by DL. If you were forced to fly Main Cabin, DL would refund the fare difference based on date of purchase (original ticket date).

For a voluntary change, the best you can do is to cancel and take a credit, and rebook at current rates. In this case its too close in to get a Z fare.

Basically just because a flight has Z inventory, doesnt necessarily mean you can switch into
it without honoring the fare rules, in this case the advance purchase requirement.
The rules I posted above are from the VOLUNTARY CHANGE section of the fare rules. Screenshot attached.

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Old Dec 20, 2022, 12:21 am
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Are you meeting advance ticketing requirements for fare?
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Old Dec 20, 2022, 12:30 am
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Originally Posted by flyerCO
Are you meeting advance ticketing requirements for fare?
The Fare Rules says:

ADVANCE RESERVATIONS/TICKETING
CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS FOR ALL SECTORS ARE REQUIRED AT LEAST 14 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE. TICKETING MUST BE COMPLETED WITHIN 3 DAYS AFTER RESERVATIONS ARE MADE OR AT LEAST 14 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE WHICHEVER IS EARLIER.

I met advance ticketing rules when I booked the original ticket. The voluntary change rule 5 says:

5. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM ORIGINAL TKT DATE TO DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT

So, based on the ADV RES measured from original ticket date (3 months ago) to my departure date (3 days from now), it seems I've met the rule 5? Do I need to have 14 days to departure from today even though the change rule says it's measured from the original ticketing date?
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Old Dec 20, 2022, 12:36 am
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Originally Posted by nort
The Fare Rules says:

ADVANCE RESERVATIONS/TICKETING
CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS FOR ALL SECTORS ARE REQUIRED AT LEAST 14 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE. TICKETING MUST BE COMPLETED WITHIN 3 DAYS AFTER RESERVATIONS ARE MADE OR AT LEAST 14 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE WHICHEVER IS EARLIER.

I met advance ticketing rules when I booked the original ticket. The voluntary change rule 5 says:

5. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM ORIGINAL TKT DATE TO DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT

So, based on the ADV RES measured from original ticket date (3 months ago) to my departure date (3 days from now), it seems I've met the rule 5? Do I need to have 14 days to departure from today even though the change rule says it's measured from the original ticketing date?
You've met advance reservation requirements. However you haven't met the 14 day ticketing. Rule 5 only changes reservations requirement.

Reservation and ticket are separate things.
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Old Dec 20, 2022, 1:11 am
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Originally Posted by flyerCO
You've met advance reservation requirements. However you haven't met the 14 day ticketing. Rule 5 only changes reservations requirement.

Reservation and ticket are separate things.
They have ADV RES clauses for repricing using current fares too - screenshot below. Both Amex and Delta said they are willing to reprice using current fares - with just 3 days for the flight. So, they are clearly not requiring that 14-day advance ticketing for changes.

If the 14-day advance ticketing requirement applies to changes too (not just original reservations), then how can it apply only to historical fares and not current fares? That would be an inconsistent interpretation.




.
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Old Dec 20, 2022, 1:49 am
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xliioper question for sure.
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Old Dec 20, 2022, 2:17 am
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Originally Posted by nort
They have ADV RES clauses for repricing using current fares too - screenshot below. Both Amex and Delta said they are willing to reprice using current fares - with just 3 days for the flight. So, they are clearly not requiring that 14-day advance ticketing for changes.

If the 14-day advance ticketing requirement applies to changes too (not just original reservations), then how can it apply only to historical fares and not current fares? That would be an inconsistent interpretation.




.
Ok, per your words/screen shot above......have you met condition #2? Has all interational flights been taken....hence the whole fare portion you are talking about, would be once travel has commenced, which in this case from what I see has not.**Also, I bet/assume that if you look above the fare rule section you are quoting....it states the following: Once Travel has commenced

As far as your historical fares, Delta only applies historical fares on tickets that are partially flown, not unflown tickets. Which is why you are getting a complete refare at the current fares due to not meeting the current fare restrictions.

Jwhuffman
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Old Dec 20, 2022, 2:36 am
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Originally Posted by nort
They have ADV RES clauses for repricing using current fares too - screenshot below. Both Amex and Delta said they are willing to reprice using current fares - with just 3 days for the flight. So, they are clearly not requiring that 14-day advance ticketing for changes.

If the 14-day advance ticketing requirement applies to changes too (not just original reservations), then how can it apply only to historical fares and not current fares? That would be an inconsistent interpretation.




.
Where does it say it doesn't?
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Old Dec 20, 2022, 4:10 am
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Originally Posted by jwhuffman
As far as your historical fares, Delta only applies historical fares on tickets that are partially flown, not unflown tickets. Which is why you are getting a complete refare at the current fares due to not meeting the current fare restrictions.
While that seems pretty much universally true of domestic fares (a summary of domestic fare rules for changes before departure is shown below -- there is no alternative for using historical fares and Adv res date). International fares often look to have provisions for being able to use historical fares and Adv res date from original ticketing date before journey departure begins (as shown above).

IN THE EVENT OF CHANGES TO TICKETED FLIGHTS
BEFORE DEPARTURE OF JOURNEY AND WITHIN TICKET VALIDITY
REPRICE USING FARES IN EFFECT TODAY

PROVIDED ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET-
1. DL FARES ARE USED
2. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM REISSUE DATE TO DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT

Last edited by xliioper; Dec 20, 2022 at 5:52 am
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Old Dec 20, 2022, 5:24 am
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decided to remove post as I am not going to argue with someone who does not work at Delta.
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Old Dec 20, 2022, 5:49 am
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Originally Posted by jwhuffman
decided to remove post as I am not going to argue with someone who does not work at Delta.
Not looking for an argument and I'm perhaps misinterpreting the voluntary changes section of international fare rules. I had assumed until recently that all fares could only preserve original ticketing date for advance purchase and historical fares for changes after departure, but someone pointed out the differences between voluntary changes section of domestic and international fares in one of the other airline forums. Condition #2 does not seem mandatory (it reads to me as an if-then, not a must). But maybe I'm misinterpreting. There's no mention that travel has to have commenced before the rule is applied in the text below.


Last edited by xliioper; Dec 20, 2022 at 6:45 am
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