Billy Mumphrey

Sorry for creating a new thread, but I'm stuck in ZRH now after my flight was cancelled. I was originally supposed to fly ZRH-JFK-DCA today, but the first flight cancelled just a couple hours before departure, leaving me no time to get rerouted home today. The best the agent could do for me was ZRH-AMS-IAD, departing tonight but with an overnight in AMS and arriving about 18 hours late. I am a DM on an award ticket in business class. I know I'm entitle to 261 comp, but I had some questions:

• Will Delta reimburse me for a hotel? The phone agent who rebooked me said I was on my own for hotel cost, but sometimes reality differs a bit from the rules. Will anyone in AMS be able to assist with a voucher or should I just book my own room (and if so, any chance of Delta reimbursing it)? If I'm on the hook for a room with no chance of reimbursement I'll just book something as cheap as possible now.
• I was on an award ticket on Delta metal, so was expecting to get MQDs for the flight home. I know I won't get MQDs on KLM metal, but will Delta give me ORC (with MQDs) for the route I was supposed to fly?

Thanks!

rylan

Question is what was the reason for cancellation. As long as they don't try to claim it is something like weather, EU 261 calls out for standard of care and should include hotel when you are stuck overnight like this.
That includes food, accommodation (since you are rebooked the next day), and transport to and from the hotel. As a reminder, the cash portion of compensation is 600 Eur for your trip in addition to the other items.

Yes you should get ORC if you request it... the flight will likely post as whatever you actually fly, so you'll have to call or email to get it corrected.

Duke787

Agent is wrong. DL and/or KLM is required by EU261 to provide you with a hotel for a forced overnight (in addition to the €600/person) as long as cancellation wasn’t due to extraordinary circumstances as defined by EU261.

If they didn’t offer you one, I would either go back to the desk and insist if you are still at the airport or book something and keep all receipts so you can request it in your EU261 claim alongside the main compensation request

Billy Mumphrey

Thanks rylan! The website says it was cancelled due to an "operational issue". I can't get any more details from the agents here on the ground or by phone. I'm going to book my hotel night now and save all receipts.

rylan

Operational issue would qualify under EU 261 - sounds like mechanical problem or shortage on crew.

They should provide hotel, however they probably won't/cant at ZRH since you actually need the hotel in AMS... so an agent when you arrive there could do that. Or just book yourself and save receipts as you mentioned.
If you are stuck in ZRH for a while such as for several hours close to dinner they should also provide you with meal voucher, or save your receipts if you want to get dinner.

NHFL9

I would book yourself if your financial means allow it and then hope for reimbursement. When we had a cancellation out of Paris, we heard from other passengers the next day that the hotel the airline used was really quite poor. Thankfully, we were just able to drive home and try again the next day. Similarly, a few years ago, a colleague (DM /2MM) of mine flying in DL One once had a cancellation out of LAX to SYD and was booked by Delta at the Super8. No joke. He booked at the Westin and ultimately was reimbursed by DL at a later date.

cmn.jcs

I think the "duty of care" and "compensation" components of EU261 are getting conflated. Duty of care (food and lodging) is required regardless of the cause. Compensation is not due if the cause of the delay/cancellation is "extraordinary." So Billy Mumphrey should be getting food and lodging, even if the delay was due to weather. Of course, whether the DL agents handle this correctly is a separate question. The BA forum has a good series of posts explaining UK261 (which is much the same for these purposes).

nomiiiii

In Europe you can definitely book hotels that have a 6pm day-of cancellation deadline (or even don't take in your credit card info when making reservation, saying they'll cancel your booking if you don't arrive or call by 6pm)

Find such a hotel to book yourself. Then if in Amsterdam delta books you a voucher hotel you can cancel it

flyerCO

Standard of care applies regardless of reason under EC261. Hotel, meals, must be provided even if cancelation is due to weather/government.

Compensation is different, that depends on reason.

You'll have to get hotel and meal vouchers in AMS if that is where are overnighting.

ijgordon

There may be some nuance here. I periodically follow the LX (Swiss) forum, and they play hardball on certain aspects of EC261. I’m not sure if it’s that Switzerland isn’t party to the regulation, or whether they don’t necessarily abide by all the court precedents that clarify specific scenarios under the regulation. I don’t know if DL will act similarly, though certainly this seems like a relatively straightforward situation.

ClipperDelta

Flight was cancelled due to an ill cockpit crew member.
The ZRH station is usually pretty good about providing meal vouchers and hotel stays in such situations. I was on a ZRH-JFK that was cancelled back in November due to a mechanical, and they were even allowing rebookings on other carriers and paying for hotels and meals (in Zurich). Not sure if in the OP's case the issue was with the AMS overnight where the ZRH ground staff were uncertain how to treat hotel stays outside of ZRH due to IROPs in ZRH...

Lomapaseo

If you turned down an offer to get you home via a US East coast city on same day then they may balk at paying for a hotel.

But what the heck book it yourself and complain later

irishguy28

The duty of care under EC261/2004 is due regardless of the reason for cancellation....unless the passenger turns down a same-day alternate itinerary and elects to travel later, i.e. the overnight stay is by choice rather than by absolute necessity (It's the additional cash compensation that is dependent upon the circumstances)

"They" are not in a position to offer a hotel in Amsterdam. Even when KLM is having issues, they generally ask that you book and pay for a hotel, and then claim it back later.

beachmouse

The front line CS reps don’t necessarily know EU 261 rules or even what EU 261 is- that’s handled by a niche part of the refunds department.

It’s my understanding that the normal guideline is to try to keep the hotel cost under 200 euros/USD for easy reimbursement but I got Delta to reimburse a 425 euro charge for a night at the Hilton-Munich Airport earlier this year under similar circumstances with an explanation that when I was at the airport, there were no employees to provide a voucher so we went back to the Hilton we’d stayed at the night before. (Previous night was a much lower price booked way out)

I suspect that was one of those cases when having decent elite status helps get a guideline bent a little, and our meal reimbursement requests were relatively modest so it didn’t seem like we were trying to game the system.

Billy Mumphrey

Just an update, I called Delta one last time and was successful in getting on the last flight out of ZRH that would still get me home today. ZRH-EWR-IAD on Swiss and United. Even managed to keep J/F cabins. It took 5 phone calls and about 3 hours of phone time, mostly on hold for global support, to get this resolved. Did I just get unlucky having to fight so hard for a same day routing on Star Alliance flights, or was I just lucky to get this option at all? Hopefully it doesn’t mess up my ORC request for MQDs.

Never ended up booking a hotel thankfully, thanks to all here for the great suggestions.