kyushuman

I did a cursory search for "160" but maybe it's been discussed?
Flying on DL160 today. Have a BA booking with fairly short connection time AMS-LHR; also have a late-afternoon KLM booking (using SkyMiles) as a backup in case DL160 is delayed, so not worried.
But looking into DL160, it's been delayed (90+ minutes) around 25% of the time. Maybe it's because I haven't flown DL post pandemic, but I don't remember ever seeing a Delta flight with that kind of delay statistic. Is that the new normal, or just an oddity?

coast_2_coast

I would assume that plane runs AMS-MSP first so inbound delays from AMS would cause problems for the return too. There’s a whole separate thread about what a mess AMS has been this summer.

MSPeconomist

When there are mechanical problems with longhaul aircraft at MSP, maybe DL swaps planes in a way that cannibalizes the DL 160 aircraft. The rationale could be that there are other later MSP-AMS nonstops so that passengers can be rebooked easily if it's cancelled. For today, I'm seeing DL 162 and DL 164 scheduled for roughly two and four hours later, all using the A330-900 neo.

GUWonder

It’s been a “feature” of a middle MSP-AMS flight on schedules even before this year. Never cared to find out why a middle flight is the one for me to pay the price with delays (and also cancellations), but it used to be the cheaper one for me to book.

Grouchy

If you look up the flighthistory you will notice that if the inbound flight for DL160 is coming from AMS it's genrerally on time.

The inbound flights from the last 2 delayed DL160 flights were:
17 Oct 2022 London (LHR) Minneapolis (MSP) DL9911 7:53 08:45 14:21 11:50 Landed 16:14 : Delay of around 4.5hrs
16 Oct 2022 Amsterdam (AMS) Minneapolis (MSP) DL163 8:22 12:40 13:17 14:50 Landed 14:38: Arrived 12 minutes earlier but DL160 left MSP with a 1h50 delay

In the first case it is difficult to make up the 4.5hrs late arrival from LHR. In the second case the inbound flight arrived earlier but something happened in MSP....

GUWonder

Are the relevant MSP mechanics/parts handlers and other ground service for these “middle” MSP-AMS flights more on break or between shifts around that time of day?

MSPeconomist

DL 160 is the first of two or three (apparently depending on the day of the week) daily nonstops from MSP to AMS, although there is an earlier KLM nonstop. It's not the middle flight. It also leaves later than the DL CDG and ICN (not daily) nonstops, but a bit before the LHR nonstop.

GUWonder

If there are three or four flights a day on a route, the second flight of the day is a middle flight. Like with NW, I lump DL and KL together on this route. The KL metal is easier to follow and plan with than DL metal since the KLM metal always comes in from AMS and so just requires paying attention to whether or not the KL metal is about on time for AMS-MSP.

kyushuman

Just an update that last Wednesday's DL160 did go on time, no glitches. I upgraded to Delta One so I could get my work done and.... no WiFi!
Before I'd even taken out my laptop, the Purser announced, "This plane is so new it doesn't have WiFi yet, sorry."
DL App showed WiFi symbol.
If DL's app lists "Wifi" symbol, there should be WiFi. Of course these things happen sometimes, but I've come to never expect WiFi to work on a plane, even a new one!

Jeff767

Airbus is at present unable to supply wifi on new A330-900 deliveries. All the newer 900’s are being delivered without the WIFI and retrofit is not expected for at least 6 months if not longer.

andrewk829

DL142, the early afternoon (the exact time shifts around a bit) SEA-AMS run, on which I have flown quite often over the past decade, is also notorious for being frequently delayed. I checked just now and it hasn't been too bad the past 10 days, but it had some a few very severe delays earlier this month (I was monitoring as I flew it on Oct. 12). It seems that for most destinations, Delta/ KLM will give you a choice between a dangerously short layover in AMS of an hour or less, or a crazy long one of 4-6 hours. After being burned a couple of times gambling on the shorter one (including instances where I made the connection but my checked baggage did not), I now routinely acquiesce to the longer layover. It seems odd to me that DL and KLM can't better coordinate their schedules to create Europe-bound layovers in AMS of about 2 to 2-1/2 hours, which seems about right.

Jeff767

Part of the issues with delays on the A330-900 flights was the inability to do max power takeoffs because of a Airbus restriction covered in another thread. The SLC flights were forced into a fuel stop with the restriction. It’s no longer a issue with schedule changes and reliability should get back to normal.

Grouchy

That's N417DX, was on the plane today (DL161). So also no wifi available.

AMS/KLM does have real issues. First KLM had to cancel flights because of the (lack of) security problems at AMS. On top of that since two weeks ago KLM started to cancel more flights, not because AMS told them but apparently they have not enough people at some departments.
Going the other direction with US-bound layovers it's a somewhat different experience. Did AMS-MSP-LAX today with a 1h15 connection @MSP. . DL161 was delayed and because of this delay DL was holding DL1177 (MSP-LAX) for like 45 minutes (plus a little bit longer but that was because of VIP movement @MSP) for like 25 pax from the AMS flight.
I remember AMS-SLC-DEN a couple of weeks ago, same situation and again DL was holding that flight for the pax from AMS. KLM @AMS doen't seem to do this.

spryam

I took DL 160 twice within the past 6 weeks. The first time, it was delayed 6 hours. They ended up moving us to a different aircraft. The second time we were delayed by 90 minutes. I had a 7 and a 6 hour layover in AMS so I was lucky.

MSPeconomist

It's widely believed that customers prefer to buy tickets with minimal total trip time, which often means connections as close to MCT as possible. Hence airlines deliberately offer such schedules because passengers will pay more for them or select them over other more sensible connections.