hotturnip

I'll be losing my Gold status with DL in 2023. I'd like to move my earning and redemption to another Skyteam program for those times I'm still flying DL (I plan just to go for the lowest fare in the future.) Is there any consensus about whether Virgin or Flying Blue would be a better option? I'm choosing them because both partner with Amex and Chase, so plenty of transfer opportunities, often with bonuses. I'd still be doing a fair amount of domestic DL travel, with occasional Europe trips. Y is fine for domestic; I can deal with it for transatlantic as well, although reasonable J awards would be welcome. (Delta's are just ridiculous.) I should still be able to use my Amex Plat for Skyclub access when on DL metal.

I'm attracted by Virgin's old-fashioned award chart, but my research suggests there are often deals to be had via FB as well. I'm also curious about anyone's experiences with earning miles on Delta flights with these other programs. Is there any advantage for a bargain-hunter such as myself?

DLATL777

Virgin is not a member of Skyteam (thankfully-Skyteam is terrible).

Zorak

There's a master thread in the Skyteam forum: Which ST program should I sign up for?

physicsdude

Just my two cents. FB isn't the best if you're based in the US unless you fly J to across borders/oceans a few times a year. Domestic flights only account for 2 xp in Y while domestic first class/transcon flights are 6 xp and you need 100 XP to get Silver or STE. To then get FB Gold, you need to earn an addition 180 XP the following year. I don't fly as much compared to most people on Flyertalk, but usually, my flying schedule includes crossing the pond a few times a year and then fly within Europe a lot, so I'm able to at least maintain FB Gold and close to getting FB Platinum this year.

On the other hand, booking award flights are pretty decent and cost less miles compared to DL. It's usually about 56k miles to fly transatlantic in J and there are often deals published. There are occasional sales in J where transatlantic flights are between 1.2-2k a few times a year. Also, to get status, you just need to get to Europe and do XP runs in Euro-J to maintain status and there are lot of XP run deals that come less than 10 Euros/XP, and often they're about a $300-$500 investment per run.

hhdl

If US-based you can get the sub-$100 AFKL credit card from BofA and get 60 XP per year for $15k in spend (along with at least 27,500 miles per year from that spending, counting the 5000 miles you get for putting at least $50 a year on the card), which makes it 40 XP for Silver and then 120 XP for Gold. If you can rack up paid domestic first (or better flights to Puerto Rico/Canada/Mexico) segments, that's easier than getting equivalent status from DL with that level of spend (20 domestic F segments a year with that card spend will get FB Gold). The AFKL card is also a MasterCard, so generally easier to use things like Plastiq to hit the spend targets.

Without the card, each domestic D1/F segment is a thirtieth of the way to Gold (as in if you do a consistent 2.5 a month, you'll get Gold within 20 months and keep it as long as you keep that pace), so the equivalent of 1667 MQM and 200 MQD per segment... with paid F, the MQD shouldn't be a problem, so assuming the 150% MQM earn on Z fares, if your average segment length is 1100 miles or less, you're getting more elite credit from FB (though the value of FB Gold to a paid F flyer on DL is questionable). With the card, an average segment in paid F below 1667 miles is worth more elite credit from FB than from DL.

But if you're not either doing fairly frequent transoceanic flights (FB is useful in both Europe and Asia/Pacific, given its partnerships with JL and QF) or flying short domestic F segments (or flying to the Caribbean/Mexico/Canada on DL in F for 15 XP a segment), it's perhaps not worth it.

hotturnip

Yeah, and nobody has responded there. For months.

hotturnip

No they're not, but you can still earn and redeem on DL with them, so they'll work for my situation.

hotturnip

Thanks for the informative responses. However, I'm not really so interested in getting status on FB or Virgin; it's more about earning and redeeming. If it looks like I'll be flying a ton on DL in a year, I'll probably just revert to my DL account. But I actually got to Gold kind of by accident--I'm not really a status-seeker.

I was actually approved for the FB credit card back in May, but BoA never sent it to me. Finally, 6 weeks later, I had to call and cancel it because there wasn't enough time left for my spending to earn the bonus.

It looks like with both Virgin and FB, if I book on the DL website, but enter the partner's program #, I should get credit for miles flown rather than dollars spent. For a bargain-hunter such as myself, that's probably better for earning. And my research suggests that both have slight advantages over DL in terms of redemptions. So I'm wondering if there's something else I need to be considering in order to maximize my earning and redeeming possibilities.

xliioper

DL does not seem to release much inventory to VS for mileage redemptions. While mileage levels are pretty decent, the carrier-imposed fees can be pretty outrageous (particularly for business class awards which look to currently be $850 each way). DL does not charge carrier imposed fees on awards on their own metal or their major EU partners to EU for roundtrip awards ex-US or one-way awards ex-US.

While you earn miles based on mileage flown when crediting to VS, Delta L/U/T/X/V fares earn 50% mileage flown, and BE fares earn 25%.

hotturnip

That's good to know; it's the sort of firsthand info I need to help me decide. The thing is, I'm always balking at redeeming on DL because I feel like their redemption levels are too high. So they might as well have low inventory, too. It's probably going to turn out that it doesn't matter much, but I'm trying to inform myself as much as possible.

hotturnip

And my understanding is that it the flight is on DL metal, VS redemptions don't have the fuel surcharge.

VFR

Perhaps KE? Low economy fares earn 70% of miles flown, and award rates are pretty reasonable.

hotturnip

KE doesn't participate in both Chase and Amex's point transfer programs. But thanks for the suggestion.

RealHJ

But VS is worse. By far the worst J product (seats, not the service), period.

SkyTeam has some great J product, MU (33Es and newer), VN, GA, etc. And then mediocre (most of KL) and just poor (much of AF). But VS really stands out as the hands down indisputably worst.

And as for FFP, VS uses the Delta reservations system, but charges per segment. Very buggy. And very high YQ fees for non-VS flights (about equal to what VS pays to the operating airline for the award seat, so the intrinsic value of VS miles is close to zero), even when the other airline doesn't charge it. Plus most flights you have to call to book, and VS never has availability even when other airlines (not the operating carrier) have the same award seats available.

VS FFP used to be good for booking DL flights (e.g. 35K for J flights to/from Japan, when DL was charging 120K or something ridiculous for the very same flight), but now it is no more so. You're stuck with worst of the worst. On the upside, easy to get VS miles using BoA cards.