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-   -   Seat Squatters WIn on DL1943 last night (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles/2061858-seat-squatters-win-dl1943-last-night.html)

sethb Dec 13, 2021 11:45 pm


Originally Posted by jphripjah (Post 33810426)
If you refuse to take your seat and the police have to drag you off the plane, can't you be charged with obstructing a flight crew or something?

Don't flight attendants have the power to move people out of ticketed seats to accommodate families or address security/safety issues or something? If the FA had dug in here and the passenger caused a major scene, couldn't the FA have defended her actions by saying "I didn't tell him to take 13B just because I'm lazy and it seemed like the easiest thing to do. I was accommodating woman with daughter and infant and there was a safety/health reason why I thought it was best to let them stay in 10C?"

That's up to the Gate Agent. Flight attendants are not permitted to upgrade paying passengers.

flyerCO Dec 14, 2021 12:41 am


Originally Posted by sethb (Post 33810499)
It's the airline's policy for them to know which seats passengers actually fly in. Also, when I request compensation for the downgrade, I'll need proof that I didn't get to sit in the seat originally assigned.

You can, if you wish, call the police to have me removed. I will place the seat thief in my seat under citizen's arrest and formally demand the assistance of the police in expediting that arrest. I guarantee that process will lead to a much longer delay than moving the seat thief out of my seat, and my report to Delta will ensure that the delay is credited to your refusal to remove the seat thief from my seat.

Also, do you want 1's? Because this is how you get 1's on the flight survey.

You'll be in jail for false imprisonment if you try that. No crime against you has been committed. No crime against DL has occurred yet either. Unlike a law enforcement officer, you don't get immunity if you detain someone and it was incorrect. The only exception to this rule is for merchants and their employees who do get immunity. Even then it is very specific circumstances that they get it.

You likely have a civil case to sue DL, but no criminal case against the "thief". You don't own the seat, nor has DL leased you the seat. DL could file charges for trespassing if OP refuses to get off plane after being asked. (If they refused to move) If passenger moves back to C+ inflight then they could also possibly file theft of service charges.

diburning Dec 14, 2021 5:19 am

I have a feeling that the FA already decided that they didn't like OP before the whole seat poacher thing. Why? Looking at DL1943 on FlightAware, this flight has been operated by a 737-900ER for as long as the history on FlightAware shows. Row 10 on this aircraft has a closet on the DEF side. If there was no room for OP's bag, most FAs would offer to stow it in the closet, or take down one of their crew bags and stow it in the closet to make room for the passenger's bag.

Schultzois Dec 14, 2021 6:13 am


Originally Posted by ovacikar (Post 33806961)
10C should have rather bluffed and asked to be offloaded from the flight. That would have sure delayed more.

preferably citing also safety concerns about passengers from row 33 moving to row 10 and crew not correcting it when made aware.
Very sloppy work on the part of the cabin crew and demonstrates willingness to cut corners in order to get out faster.

pbjag Dec 14, 2021 6:13 am


Originally Posted by HWGeeks (Post 33806993)
He was a bit of a DYKWIA but at the same time he paid for 10C and the bins above row 10 do say exclusively for comfort +, which isn't enforced.

I felt bad for his seat more than him having to check his carry-on.

How much do you want to wager that those bins were full because the squatters’ bags were in there?

Repooc17 Dec 14, 2021 6:27 am


Originally Posted by jphripjah (Post 33810426)
If you refuse to take your seat and the police have to drag you off the plane, can't you be charged with obstructing a flight crew or something?

The pax had been assigned to 10C, but taken by someone else not supposed to be seated in 10C. How can someone be refusing to take their seat if their assigned seat had already been taken by someone else (improperly)? Stand up for your rights. If you have to be dragged off the flight, so be it. Call out the wrongs.


Originally Posted by jphripjah (Post 33810426)
Don't flight attendants have the power to move people out of ticketed seats to accommodate families or address security/safety issues or something? If the FA had dug in here and the passenger caused a major scene, couldn't the FA have defended her actions by saying "I didn't tell him to take 13B just because I'm lazy and it seemed like the easiest thing to do. I was accommodating woman with daughter and infant and there was a safety/health reason why I thought it was best to let them stay in 10C?"

Squatters were ticketed in row 33, and decided to move themselves to row 10. FAs knew those squatters were in the wrong and still did nothing.

What safety/health reasons are you referring to in this scenario? Is there someone wrong with the ticketed seats where they are?

4004 Dec 14, 2021 7:15 am

All fair points about this being a poor showing by DL attendants. I am willing to assume the 10C pax has agreed to the swap so that they are not seen as the reason for the delay by other pax.
Given his (eventual?) cooperation that should've made their jobs easier, FAs should've at least tried to settle the matter with the inconvenienced pax there and then

Visconti Dec 14, 2021 7:24 am

RE: Squatters

Ah, not a lawyer, but I'm assuming in the post Dao era, DL can't really force the squatters to move if they refuse? I mean, you can use force, right? Can't call the cops, right? Offer a bribe...er...compensation to return to their assigned seats?

Collierkr Dec 14, 2021 7:36 am


Originally Posted by jphripjah (Post 33810426)
If you refuse to take your seat and the police have to drag you off the plane, can't you be charged with obstructing a flight crew or something?

Don't flight attendants have the power to move people out of ticketed seats to accommodate families or address security/safety issues or something? If the FA had dug in here and the passenger caused a major scene, couldn't the FA have defended her actions by saying "I didn't tell him to take 13B just because I'm lazy and it seemed like the easiest thing to do. I was accommodating woman with daughter and infant and there was a safety/health reason why I thought it was best to let them stay in 10C?"

this last bit wouldn’t wash at all. The lady has two seats together. That’s all she needed. If the original 10C pax simply refused to fly in another seat they would have had to offload the bags and further delayed the flight. No need to get drug off the plane.

ATOBTTR Dec 14, 2021 7:50 am


Originally Posted by Repooc17 (Post 33811073)
The pax had been assigned to 10C, but taken by someone else not supposed to be seated in 10C. How can someone be refusing to take their seat if their assigned seat had already been taken by someone else (improperly)? Stand up for your rights. If you have to be dragged off the flight, so be it. Call out the wrongs.

(Bold emphasis mine)
Not saying the seat squatters weren't wrong (they were). Not saying the FA wasn't wrong (the FA was wrong). Not saying I wouldn't be furious if this happened to me (I would be). But the reality is it's always so easy to be a "tough guy" on the internet where real world consequences don't apply. Regardless of the situation, how would most employers view you getting dragged off a plane and possibly arrested? And even if you got off the plane willingly (not by force) but chose to deplane over the seat and take another flight, if you were on a business trip and you missed the meeting or event you were going to and you told your employer "I chose to get off the plane rather than take the other seat based on principle," how would they react? In the real world, people don't get to make such decisions in a vacuum free of outside consequences and impacts.

HWGeeks Dec 14, 2021 7:57 am


Originally Posted by 4004 (Post 33811192)
All fair points about this being a poor showing by DL attendants. I am willing to assume the 10C pax has agreed to the swap so that they are not seen as the reason for the delay by other pax.
Given his (eventual?) cooperation that should've made their jobs easier, FAs should've at least tried to settle the matter with the inconvenienced pax there and then

He only agreed after repeatedly being told not to make the flight later than what it already was and he kept complaining that he needed the aisle because of a bad foot. But in all the time they were telling him not to make the flight later than what it was the squatters could have moved to 33 which I assume were still empty. Not sure haven't made the trek that far back of the plane in a long time.

brandsberg Dec 14, 2021 8:14 am

Moved Seat
 
Why weren't the people moved after they were in the air? That would have resolved all the issues. I would have made a stink as well. Need to be reported to FAA. Staff was just plain wrong on this one.

ATOBTTR Dec 14, 2021 8:29 am


Originally Posted by brandsberg (Post 33811378)
Why weren't the people moved after they were in the air? That would have resolved all the issues. I would have made a stink as well. Need to be reported to FAA. Staff was just plain wrong on this one.

The FAA and DOT aren't going to get involved or probably care. There was nothing "illegal" and, right, wrong, or indifferent, the airline can *always* fall back on "seat assignments are not guaranteed and passengers may be moved to another set for operational reasons or to accommodate other passengers with special needs." The issue is between the person who had their seat swapped and DL and it can be resolved there. What should happen is: 1) DL provides the person who was moved appropriate compensation, even if he was accommodated in the same "cabin" (C+) and 2) DL needs to let the FA who took the easiest and most painless route for them was extremely inappropriate and outline the action the FA should take in the future (move the seat squatters). However, DL also has to tread carefully in how they approach the FA because all of this is technically hearsay as far as DL can tell from its own records.

nrr Dec 14, 2021 8:30 am


Originally Posted by Visconti (Post 33811211)
RE: Squatters

Ah, not a lawyer, but I'm assuming in the post Dao era, DL can't really force the squatters to move if they refuse? I mean, you can use force, right? Can't call the cops, right? Offer a bribe...er...compensation to return to their assigned seats?

Dr. Dao was seated in his assigned seat, a different issue from what is being discussed here.

nrr Dec 14, 2021 8:36 am


Originally Posted by brandsberg (Post 33811378)
Why weren't the people moved after they were in the air? That would have resolved all the issues. I would have made a stink as well. Need to be reported to FAA. Staff was just plain wrong on this one.

Once in the air how do DL FAs get the poachers to move if they refuse to "budge"? An incident in the air is to be avoided at all cost.


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