Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Delta Air Lines | SkyMiles
Reload this Page >

Delta changes/devaluation to GUC Program -2022 (Only 1 Class of Service Upgrade)

Delta changes/devaluation to GUC Program -2022 (Only 1 Class of Service Upgrade)

    Hide Wikipost
Old Feb 2, 22, 1:58 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: Utskicat
Wiki Link
New master GUC thread started for GUC discussion post 2/1 rules with class codes and aircraft scenario chart in that WIKI.

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delt...2-changes.html

Effective February 1 (including if waitlisted but haven't cleared) GUC change. RUC do not change at all, except for change in expiration date policy.

You will clear immediately into First Class on any connecting flights that have a First Class cabin and any available First Class seats for sale. This only applies when using a GUC -- RUCs will continue to require available upgrade inventory to clear immediately.

DL operated Flights with PS -
You now will clear immediately to PS as long as any seats are available for sale. No needing to hope for upgrade space. You will be added to waitlist for D1 that will clear starting at T-24. You do not need an additional upgrade certificate for the D1 waitlist, a single upgrade certificate (per person-direction) covers PS at booking + D1 waitlist. There is no option to use 2 certificates to upgrade from main cabin to D1.

If you wish to upgrade to D1 before T-24 you must buy a PS fare and there must be upgrade award space.

DL operated flights without PS -

Main cabin fare can upgrade to D1 if award space is available at anytime. (No change)

Partner flights -

KLM flights continue to upgrade to business class for now. KLM is in the process of introducing a real premium economy cabin.

Air France flights have reverted to old rules, either buy economy and upgrade to premium economy or buy premium economy and upgrade to business.

Virgin Atlantic flights are buy economy and upgrade to premium economy or buy premium economy and upgrade to business.

Partner-operated flights upgraded to premium economy do not include the business class waitlist within 24 hours.

More to be added as more time allows. Feel free to help edit.


EXPIRATION DATE CHANGES

Starting 2/1/22, RUC & GUC expiration dates will change. They will no longer be valid for 12 months from the date you select them -- they will be valid through the end of that Medallion Year.



Print Wikipost

Old Nov 4, 21, 1:33 pm
  #76  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toledo, OH
Programs: Delta DM & MM, Hilton DM, Marriott gold, Hyatt Globalist, Alaska 75K, Wyndham Diamond,
Posts: 14,974
Originally Posted by flyerCO View Post
As noted in Wiki (thanks bgrif for clearing up my rough draft) RUC have no changes.

I'll happily accept your unused GUC on behalf of 501(c)3 charity I help run. It's that time of year to shamelessly ask for donations anyway 😇.
Seeing they are only getting 8K from a GUC people who itemize probably would get a better value if they donated them to a non profit if they valued them for the fare difference between Coach and Delta one to a place like SYD LOL
jamesteroh is offline  
Old Nov 4, 21, 1:45 pm
  #77  
formerly wchinchen
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Honolulu
Programs: AA CK, UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 575
Originally Posted by ethernal View Post
The biggest devaluation is that it is not confirmable at booking.

Why would I gamble and pay $2000 for Premium Select and hope to get D1 (Premium Select isn't worth the money to me) when I can book a somewhat comparable itinerary on a competitor and actually book into J for only $500 more?

I already paid a huge main cabin premium being a hub captive in the past. Now I need to pay a massive Premium Select premium (yes, there are good deals, but generally not for hub captives). All for a potential upgrade. No thanks.

GUCs were definitely a huge psychological motivation factor for me to make Diamond. That is now gone. PS is not worth anything to me, and day of upgrades are the cause of more stress than anything (if I'm not guaranteed a lie flat, it means I can't plan to do anything meaningful upon arrival in Europe because I won't have slept).
Based on the email "As part of these changes, you'll see more premium seats eligible for upgrades with Global Upgrade Certificates as we expand our Delta Premium Select cabin"

Looks like Delta is trying to sell more Delta Premium Select, and have GUCs mainly be an instrument to upgrade to Delta Premium Select. They rather not drive GUC use for business class, and even if GUCs are used, they have met their goal of people purchasing more Premium Select seats.

I agree that this is poor planning for the long game. Personally, I would choose a foreign carrier over a domestic airline for European and Asian flights, unless I am using a GUC.

I believe people would have been happier with the trade off, if the GUC allowed instant upgrade to any available revenue seat, rather than GUC instrument availability that is unpredictable. If people spend money, they want predictability, not uncertainty.
HaleiwaFlyer is offline  
Old Nov 4, 21, 1:46 pm
  #78  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: DL Diamond 1.5MM, Starlux Insighter, Bonvoy Platinum, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC, Moderna 3x
Posts: 3,868
Originally Posted by ethernal View Post
With COVID, my mental status treadmill math had already shifted. It seems so odd that they would want to change the game (for the worse) when so many are in a mindset shift to begin with. Not to be melodramatic but this is truly the nail in the coffin for me in terms of status chasing.
I could have written this as well. I was already contemplating how 'over it' I was with frequent travel, but my GUCs were a strong motivator to get back out there. Now, despite maintaining status since the charter year, I think this seals the deal for me stepping back and moving on.
jmgriffin and DCAhome like this.
BenA is offline  
Old Nov 4, 21, 1:48 pm
  #79  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: CHS
Programs: DL Diamond, WN A-List, Marriott Platinum Elite, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 675
Originally Posted by ethernal View Post
I think this is a strategic mistake for Delta. They already had 100% control of what gets upgraded. It costs them virtually nothing. Why would they get rid of something that costs them virtually nothing when it was hailed as the biggest benefit of being a DM?
jmgriffin is offline  
Old Nov 4, 21, 1:52 pm
  #80  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: DL Diamond 1.5MM, Starlux Insighter, Bonvoy Platinum, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC, Moderna 3x
Posts: 3,868
Originally Posted by HaleiwaFlyer View Post
I believe people would have been happier with the trade off, if the GUC allowed instant upgrade to any available revenue seat, rather than GUC instrument availability that is unpredictable. If people spend money, they want predictability, not uncertainty.
It's of course possible that they will make a change to this effect, but the lack of an announcement about improving availability is kind of telling - they had to have known the reaction to this would be uniformly negative, and if they were intending to improve availability they would have included that in the announcement to soften the blow. Allowing access to domestic connections to the last seat is a positive change; if they are actually intending to improve availability for international routes too, it would be super weird to not talk about that upfront at the same time, so I'm assuming the worst.

I 100% agree that I am not spending a global upgrade unless I can confirm that I will be sitting in Delta One. The way this current system is structured, the certificate is burned as soon as you join the waitlist - you can't choose to sit in main cabin if you are not able to clear into Delta One. That's lame.
Spiff, kthomas, lsquare and 3 others like this.
BenA is offline  
Old Nov 4, 21, 1:55 pm
  #81  
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Programs: DL Diamond, UA Gold, Marriott Ambassador, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 113
Originally Posted by enviroian View Post
So your new program gets you to use a SWU (GUC?) but to upgrade from a coach seat to a coach seat with 3 more inches seat pitch? That's it? Tell me it ain't so.
Originally Posted by ethernal View Post
The biggest devaluation is that it is not confirmable at booking.

Why would I gamble and pay $2000 for Premium Select and hope to get D1 (Premium Select isn't worth the money to me) when I can book a somewhat comparable itinerary on a competitor and actually book into J for only $500 more?

I already paid a huge main cabin premium being a hub captive in the past. Now I need to pay a massive Premium Select premium (yes, there are good deals, but generally not for hub captives). All for a potential upgrade. No thanks.

GUCs were definitely a huge psychological motivation factor for me to make Diamond. That is now gone. PS is not worth anything to me, and day of upgrades are the cause of more stress than anything (if I'm not guaranteed a lie flat, it means I can't plan to do anything meaningful upon arrival in Europe because I won't have slept).

I think this is a strategic mistake for Delta. They already had 100% control of what gets upgraded. It costs them virtually nothing. Why would they get rid of something that costs them virtually nothing when it was hailed as the biggest benefit of being a DM?

With COVID, my mental status treadmill math had already shifted. It seems so odd that they would want to change the game (for the worse) when so many are in a mindset shift to begin with. Not to be melodramatic but this is truly the nail in the coffin for me in terms of status chasing.
My understanding is that you pay for PS and confirm into D1 at booking or buy main cabin, confirm into PS and waitlist for D1. I'm not sure what routings you're on that another airline's J is priced only $500+ more than DL PS but would be interested to hear more about these.
atldiamond is offline  
Old Nov 4, 21, 2:01 pm
  #82  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Programs: DL-DM, AA-G, SPG-G, UA-S
Posts: 249
Originally Posted by ethernal View Post
The biggest devaluation is that it is not confirmable at booking.

Why would I gamble and pay $2000 for Premium Select and hope to get D1 (Premium Select isn't worth the money to me) when I can book a somewhat comparable itinerary on a competitor and actually book into J for only $500 more?

I already paid a huge main cabin premium being a hub captive in the past. Now I need to pay a massive Premium Select premium (yes, there are good deals, but generally not for hub captives). All for a potential upgrade. No thanks.

GUCs were definitely a huge psychological motivation factor for me to make Diamond. That is now gone. PS is not worth anything to me, and day of upgrades are the cause of more stress than anything (if I'm not guaranteed a lie flat, it means I can't plan to do anything meaningful upon arrival in Europe because I won't have slept).

I think this is a strategic mistake for Delta. They already had 100% control of what gets upgraded. It costs them virtually nothing. Why would they get rid of something that costs them virtually nothing when it was hailed as the biggest benefit of being a DM?

With COVID, my mental status treadmill math had already shifted. It seems so odd that they would want to change the game (for the worse) when so many are in a mindset shift to begin with. Not to be melodramatic but this is truly the nail in the coffin for me in terms of status chasing.
I totally agree with you. Out of JFK, I can usually get a $2000 round trip J fare on either AA, UA or Delta. I bouk the discount J from Delta when available and coach with GUC when not available (this is for personal trips for work I am paid J). Now Delta is forcing me to fly paid J on another alliance. Why do this? Two questions:

1) Can one at least wait until 24 hours and waitlist from Y to J or will we automatically be pushed to Delta Select and then be on another list. If I arrive at the gate and ask the agent, hey can I use my GUC to go to J from Y, I could at least deal with that. But not a forced use it or lose it to Delta Select. Anyone know?

2) When I buy economy, I tend to get offered a Premium select buy up of $150 each way (to EU and much cheaper then buying it at booking). If I buy up to Premium select for $150, can I then use my GUC to J?

Net net I hate this change Delta did. I could even accept, very limited Y to J upgrades and more avails from PS - J. But this is a huge devalue added to the fact that J awards to EU are now 640,000 miles or what ever.
CaliguyNYC is offline  
Old Nov 4, 21, 2:11 pm
  #83  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NYC
Programs: DL PM, DL MM
Posts: 4,083
Originally Posted by ATOBTTR View Post
Hey that's $80 at the pay with miles rate!

4K miles to turn in an RUC. If you have 4 RUCs, that's 16,000 miles. What's amusing to me is that doesn't even make up for the 20,000 miles you could have selected if you would have gone with 20,000 miles as your Choice Benefit instead of 4 RUCs.
This is honestly the most offensive part. A) You should honor the terms of what people selected, but B) at the very least .... you're now offering people LESS than what they could have gotten in the first place.
dmarge18 likes this.
FlyAO2 is offline  
Old Nov 4, 21, 2:15 pm
  #84  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NYC
Programs: DL PM, DL MM
Posts: 4,083
Also - when is this "enhanced availability" supposed to kick in? Feb 1 2022? A quick glance at flights still has MANY Int'l flights with plenty of inventory yet no upgrade seats available (Premium Select or Delta One)
CO-PLAT likes this.
FlyAO2 is offline  
Old Nov 4, 21, 2:17 pm
  #85  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: DL Diamond 1.5MM, Starlux Insighter, Bonvoy Platinum, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC, Moderna 3x
Posts: 3,868
Originally Posted by CaliguyNYC View Post
I could even accept, very limited Y to J upgrades and more avails from PS - J.
This would have taken away all of my complaints about this change and I would have been perfectly content. If we could have had strictly limited availability on Y -> J upgrades, contingent on finding super disused flights, but much more generous availability on PS -> J that's easier to use, I think that would have been a fair compromise for everyone and would have solved some of the customer dissatisfaction issues Delta was probably seeing from the certs being so difficult to use.
jmgriffin likes this.
BenA is offline  
Old Nov 4, 21, 2:19 pm
  #86  
Marriott 5+ Badge
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Programs: Delta Diamond, Bonvoy something good; sometimes other things too
Posts: 4,602
Originally Posted by FlyAO2 View Post
This is honestly the most offensive part. A) You should honor the terms of what people selected, but B) at the very least .... you're now offering people LESS than what they could have gotten in the first place.
But nothing is changing with RUCs so it's entirely a courtesy to let you refund them. The 8K for GUCs is better than the "first place" rate (25K for a DM choice benefit vs. 32K for 4 GUCs).

Originally Posted by FlyAO2 View Post
Also - when is this "enhanced availability" supposed to kick in? Feb 1 2022? A quick glance at flights still has MANY Int'l flights with plenty of inventory yet no upgrade seats available (Premium Select or Delta One)
Not sure what you mean by enhanced availability but availability will no longer matter for Premium Select come Feb 1, you will have last seat availability with GUCs -- if there's a seat for sale you can upgrade to it. I assume Delta may take the availability indicator off the website or change it to accurately say that it's always available unless the cabin is sold out. D1 will still be availability controlled (for those upgrading from paid PS) and I don't think there's been any promise made of changes to availability there.
hhdl likes this.
bgriff is offline  
Old Nov 4, 21, 2:22 pm
  #87  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
Programs: DL DM 1.764MM, Hilton Diamond, IHG Platinum, Avis CHM.
Posts: 7,712
Originally Posted by bgriff View Post
But nothing is changing with RUCs so it's entirely a courtesy to let you refund them. The 8K for GUCs is better than the "first place" rate (25K for a DM choice benefit vs. 32K for 4 GUCs).
You are mostly correct, but the change means that RUCs will expire earlier for those who previously waited to redeem their choice benefits until the 11th hour.

David
DiverDave is online now  
Old Nov 4, 21, 2:23 pm
  #88  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
Programs: DL DM 1.764MM, Hilton Diamond, IHG Platinum, Avis CHM.
Posts: 7,712
Originally Posted by HaleiwaFlyer View Post
Based on the email "As part of these changes, you'll see more premium seats eligible for upgrades with Global Upgrade Certificates as we expand our Delta Premium Select cabin"

Looks like Delta is trying to sell more Delta Premium Select, and have GUCs mainly be an instrument to upgrade to Delta Premium Select. They rather not drive GUC use for business class, and even if GUCs are used, they have met their goal of people purchasing more Premium Select seats.

I agree that this is poor planning for the long game. Personally, I would choose a foreign carrier over a domestic airline for European and Asian flights, unless I am using a GUC.

I believe people would have been happier with the trade off, if the GUC allowed instant upgrade to any available revenue seat, rather than GUC instrument availability that is unpredictable. If people spend money, they want predictability, not uncertainty.
Revenue management is protecting D1 cabin sales, and I read this as leading into an effort to boost paid sales of C+ and PS.

David
dw likes this.
DiverDave is online now  
Old Nov 4, 21, 2:23 pm
  #89  
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 164
Does anyone know if you can use 2 GUC to upgrade from Y to J?
tomtaylor23 is offline  
Old Nov 4, 21, 2:24 pm
  #90  
Marriott 5+ Badge
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Programs: Delta Diamond, Bonvoy something good; sometimes other things too
Posts: 4,602
Originally Posted by DiverDave View Post
You are mostly correct, but the change means that RUCs will expire earlier for those who previously waited to redeem their choice benefits until the 11th hour.

David
Fair enough, but that change doesn't affect any currently active RUCs, since all currently active RUCs expire 1/31/23 so they already have a longer lifespan than the old/current 12-month rules would imply. Going forward that may be a downside for future selections, but future selections will be made knowing the new rules.
bgriff is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread