Nov 4, 2021, 9:13 am
Last edit by: Utskicat
New master GUC thread started for GUC discussion post 2/1 rules with class codes and aircraft scenario chart in that WIKI.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delt...2-changes.html
Effective February 1 (including if waitlisted but haven't cleared) GUC change. RUC do not change at all, except for change in expiration date policy.
You will clear immediately into First Class on any connecting flights that have a First Class cabin and any available First Class seats for sale. This only applies when using a GUC -- RUCs will continue to require available upgrade inventory to clear immediately.
DL operated Flights with PS -
You now will clear immediately to PS as long as any seats are available for sale. No needing to hope for upgrade space. You will be added to waitlist for D1 that will clear starting at T-24. You do not need an additional upgrade certificate for the D1 waitlist, a single upgrade certificate (per person-direction) covers PS at booking + D1 waitlist. There is no option to use 2 certificates to upgrade from main cabin to D1.
If you wish to upgrade to D1 before T-24 you must buy a PS fare and there must be upgrade award space.
DL operated flights without PS -
Main cabin fare can upgrade to D1 if award space is available at anytime. (No change)
Partner flights -
KLM flights continue to upgrade to business class for now. KLM is in the process of introducing a real premium economy cabin.
Air France flights have reverted to old rules, either buy economy and upgrade to premium economy or buy premium economy and upgrade to business.
Virgin Atlantic flights are buy economy and upgrade to premium economy or buy premium economy and upgrade to business.
Partner-operated flights upgraded to premium economy do not include the business class waitlist within 24 hours.
More to be added as more time allows. Feel free to help edit.
EXPIRATION DATE CHANGES
Starting 2/1/22, RUC & GUC expiration dates will change. They will no longer be valid for 12 months from the date you select them -- they will be valid through the end of that Medallion Year.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delt...2-changes.html
Effective February 1 (including if waitlisted but haven't cleared) GUC change. RUC do not change at all, except for change in expiration date policy.
You will clear immediately into First Class on any connecting flights that have a First Class cabin and any available First Class seats for sale. This only applies when using a GUC -- RUCs will continue to require available upgrade inventory to clear immediately.
DL operated Flights with PS -
You now will clear immediately to PS as long as any seats are available for sale. No needing to hope for upgrade space. You will be added to waitlist for D1 that will clear starting at T-24. You do not need an additional upgrade certificate for the D1 waitlist, a single upgrade certificate (per person-direction) covers PS at booking + D1 waitlist. There is no option to use 2 certificates to upgrade from main cabin to D1.
If you wish to upgrade to D1 before T-24 you must buy a PS fare and there must be upgrade award space.
DL operated flights without PS -
Main cabin fare can upgrade to D1 if award space is available at anytime. (No change)
Partner flights -
KLM flights continue to upgrade to business class for now. KLM is in the process of introducing a real premium economy cabin.
Air France flights have reverted to old rules, either buy economy and upgrade to premium economy or buy premium economy and upgrade to business.
Virgin Atlantic flights are buy economy and upgrade to premium economy or buy premium economy and upgrade to business.
Partner-operated flights upgraded to premium economy do not include the business class waitlist within 24 hours.
More to be added as more time allows. Feel free to help edit.
EXPIRATION DATE CHANGES
Starting 2/1/22, RUC & GUC expiration dates will change. They will no longer be valid for 12 months from the date you select them -- they will be valid through the end of that Medallion Year.
Delta changes/devaluation to GUC Program -2022 (Only 1 Class of Service Upgrade)
Nov 4, 2021, 1:33 pm
#76
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toledo, OH
Programs: Delta DM & MM, Hilton DM, Marriott gold, Hyatt Globalist, Alaska 75K, Wyndham Diamond,
Posts: 15,399
Seeing they are only getting 8K from a GUC people who itemize probably would get a better value if they donated them to a non profit if they valued them for the fare difference between Coach and Delta one to a place like SYD LOL
bgrif for clearing up my rough draft) RUC have no changes.
Nov 4, 2021, 1:45 pm
#77
formerly wchinchen
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Honolulu
Programs: AA CK, UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,291
The biggest devaluation is that it is not confirmable at booking.
Why would I gamble and pay $2000 for Premium Select and hope to get D1 (Premium Select isn't worth the money to me) when I can book a somewhat comparable itinerary on a competitor and actually book into J for only $500 more?
I already paid a huge main cabin premium being a hub captive in the past. Now I need to pay a massive Premium Select premium (yes, there are good deals, but generally not for hub captives). All for a potential upgrade. No thanks.
GUCs were definitely a huge psychological motivation factor for me to make Diamond. That is now gone. PS is not worth anything to me, and day of upgrades are the cause of more stress than anything (if I'm not guaranteed a lie flat, it means I can't plan to do anything meaningful upon arrival in Europe because I won't have slept).
Why would I gamble and pay $2000 for Premium Select and hope to get D1 (Premium Select isn't worth the money to me) when I can book a somewhat comparable itinerary on a competitor and actually book into J for only $500 more?
I already paid a huge main cabin premium being a hub captive in the past. Now I need to pay a massive Premium Select premium (yes, there are good deals, but generally not for hub captives). All for a potential upgrade. No thanks.
GUCs were definitely a huge psychological motivation factor for me to make Diamond. That is now gone. PS is not worth anything to me, and day of upgrades are the cause of more stress than anything (if I'm not guaranteed a lie flat, it means I can't plan to do anything meaningful upon arrival in Europe because I won't have slept).
Looks like Delta is trying to sell more Delta Premium Select, and have GUCs mainly be an instrument to upgrade to Delta Premium Select. They rather not drive GUC use for business class, and even if GUCs are used, they have met their goal of people purchasing more Premium Select seats.
I agree that this is poor planning for the long game. Personally, I would choose a foreign carrier over a domestic airline for European and Asian flights, unless I am using a GUC.
I believe people would have been happier with the trade off, if the GUC allowed instant upgrade to any available revenue seat, rather than GUC instrument availability that is unpredictable. If people spend money, they want predictability, not uncertainty.
Nov 4, 2021, 1:46 pm
#78
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: DL Diamond 1.7MM, Starlux Insighter, Bonvoy Titanium, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,947
With COVID, my mental status treadmill math had already shifted. It seems so odd that they would want to change the game (for the worse) when so many are in a mindset shift to begin with. Not to be melodramatic but this is truly the nail in the coffin for me in terms of status chasing.
Nov 4, 2021, 1:48 pm
#79
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: CHS
Programs: DL Diamond, WN A-List, Marriott Platinum Elite, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 685
Nov 4, 2021, 1:52 pm
#80
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: DL Diamond 1.7MM, Starlux Insighter, Bonvoy Titanium, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,947
I 100% agree that I am not spending a global upgrade unless I can confirm that I will be sitting in Delta One. The way this current system is structured, the certificate is burned as soon as you join the waitlist - you can't choose to sit in main cabin if you are not able to clear into Delta One. That's lame.
Nov 4, 2021, 1:55 pm
#81
Join Date: Jun 2021
Programs: DL Diamond, UA Gold, Marriott Ambassador, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 200
The biggest devaluation is that it is not confirmable at booking.
Why would I gamble and pay $2000 for Premium Select and hope to get D1 (Premium Select isn't worth the money to me) when I can book a somewhat comparable itinerary on a competitor and actually book into J for only $500 more?
I already paid a huge main cabin premium being a hub captive in the past. Now I need to pay a massive Premium Select premium (yes, there are good deals, but generally not for hub captives). All for a potential upgrade. No thanks.
GUCs were definitely a huge psychological motivation factor for me to make Diamond. That is now gone. PS is not worth anything to me, and day of upgrades are the cause of more stress than anything (if I'm not guaranteed a lie flat, it means I can't plan to do anything meaningful upon arrival in Europe because I won't have slept).
I think this is a strategic mistake for Delta. They already had 100% control of what gets upgraded. It costs them virtually nothing. Why would they get rid of something that costs them virtually nothing when it was hailed as the biggest benefit of being a DM?
With COVID, my mental status treadmill math had already shifted. It seems so odd that they would want to change the game (for the worse) when so many are in a mindset shift to begin with. Not to be melodramatic but this is truly the nail in the coffin for me in terms of status chasing.
Why would I gamble and pay $2000 for Premium Select and hope to get D1 (Premium Select isn't worth the money to me) when I can book a somewhat comparable itinerary on a competitor and actually book into J for only $500 more?
I already paid a huge main cabin premium being a hub captive in the past. Now I need to pay a massive Premium Select premium (yes, there are good deals, but generally not for hub captives). All for a potential upgrade. No thanks.
GUCs were definitely a huge psychological motivation factor for me to make Diamond. That is now gone. PS is not worth anything to me, and day of upgrades are the cause of more stress than anything (if I'm not guaranteed a lie flat, it means I can't plan to do anything meaningful upon arrival in Europe because I won't have slept).
I think this is a strategic mistake for Delta. They already had 100% control of what gets upgraded. It costs them virtually nothing. Why would they get rid of something that costs them virtually nothing when it was hailed as the biggest benefit of being a DM?
With COVID, my mental status treadmill math had already shifted. It seems so odd that they would want to change the game (for the worse) when so many are in a mindset shift to begin with. Not to be melodramatic but this is truly the nail in the coffin for me in terms of status chasing.
Nov 4, 2021, 2:01 pm
#82
Join Date: Aug 2013
Programs: UA- 1K, DL-DM, AA-G, BON-T
Posts: 337
The biggest devaluation is that it is not confirmable at booking.
Why would I gamble and pay $2000 for Premium Select and hope to get D1 (Premium Select isn't worth the money to me) when I can book a somewhat comparable itinerary on a competitor and actually book into J for only $500 more?
I already paid a huge main cabin premium being a hub captive in the past. Now I need to pay a massive Premium Select premium (yes, there are good deals, but generally not for hub captives). All for a potential upgrade. No thanks.
GUCs were definitely a huge psychological motivation factor for me to make Diamond. That is now gone. PS is not worth anything to me, and day of upgrades are the cause of more stress than anything (if I'm not guaranteed a lie flat, it means I can't plan to do anything meaningful upon arrival in Europe because I won't have slept).
I think this is a strategic mistake for Delta. They already had 100% control of what gets upgraded. It costs them virtually nothing. Why would they get rid of something that costs them virtually nothing when it was hailed as the biggest benefit of being a DM?
With COVID, my mental status treadmill math had already shifted. It seems so odd that they would want to change the game (for the worse) when so many are in a mindset shift to begin with. Not to be melodramatic but this is truly the nail in the coffin for me in terms of status chasing.
Why would I gamble and pay $2000 for Premium Select and hope to get D1 (Premium Select isn't worth the money to me) when I can book a somewhat comparable itinerary on a competitor and actually book into J for only $500 more?
I already paid a huge main cabin premium being a hub captive in the past. Now I need to pay a massive Premium Select premium (yes, there are good deals, but generally not for hub captives). All for a potential upgrade. No thanks.
GUCs were definitely a huge psychological motivation factor for me to make Diamond. That is now gone. PS is not worth anything to me, and day of upgrades are the cause of more stress than anything (if I'm not guaranteed a lie flat, it means I can't plan to do anything meaningful upon arrival in Europe because I won't have slept).
I think this is a strategic mistake for Delta. They already had 100% control of what gets upgraded. It costs them virtually nothing. Why would they get rid of something that costs them virtually nothing when it was hailed as the biggest benefit of being a DM?
With COVID, my mental status treadmill math had already shifted. It seems so odd that they would want to change the game (for the worse) when so many are in a mindset shift to begin with. Not to be melodramatic but this is truly the nail in the coffin for me in terms of status chasing.
1) Can one at least wait until 24 hours and waitlist from Y to J or will we automatically be pushed to Delta Select and then be on another list. If I arrive at the gate and ask the agent, hey can I use my GUC to go to J from Y, I could at least deal with that. But not a forced use it or lose it to Delta Select. Anyone know?
2) When I buy economy, I tend to get offered a Premium select buy up of $150 each way (to EU and much cheaper then buying it at booking). If I buy up to Premium select for $150, can I then use my GUC to J?
Net net I hate this change Delta did. I could even accept, very limited Y to J upgrades and more avails from PS - J. But this is a huge devalue added to the fact that J awards to EU are now 640,000 miles or what ever.
Nov 4, 2021, 2:11 pm
#83
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NYC
Programs: DL PM, DL MM
Posts: 4,246
Hey that's $80 at the pay with miles rate!
4K miles to turn in an RUC. If you have 4 RUCs, that's 16,000 miles. What's amusing to me is that doesn't even make up for the 20,000 miles you could have selected if you would have gone with 20,000 miles as your Choice Benefit instead of 4 RUCs.
4K miles to turn in an RUC. If you have 4 RUCs, that's 16,000 miles. What's amusing to me is that doesn't even make up for the 20,000 miles you could have selected if you would have gone with 20,000 miles as your Choice Benefit instead of 4 RUCs.
Nov 4, 2021, 2:15 pm
#84
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NYC
Programs: DL PM, DL MM
Posts: 4,246
Also - when is this "enhanced availability" supposed to kick in? Feb 1 2022? A quick glance at flights still has MANY Int'l flights with plenty of inventory yet no upgrade seats available (Premium Select or Delta One)
Nov 4, 2021, 2:17 pm
#85
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: DL Diamond 1.7MM, Starlux Insighter, Bonvoy Titanium, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,947
This would have taken away all of my complaints about this change and I would have been perfectly content. If we could have had strictly limited availability on Y -> J upgrades, contingent on finding super disused flights, but much more generous availability on PS -> J that's easier to use, I think that would have been a fair compromise for everyone and would have solved some of the customer dissatisfaction issues Delta was probably seeing from the certs being so difficult to use.
Nov 4, 2021, 2:19 pm
#86
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Programs: Delta Diamond, Bonvoy something good; sometimes other things too
Posts: 5,050
Not sure what you mean by enhanced availability but availability will no longer matter for Premium Select come Feb 1, you will have last seat availability with GUCs -- if there's a seat for sale you can upgrade to it. I assume Delta may take the availability indicator off the website or change it to accurately say that it's always available unless the cabin is sold out. D1 will still be availability controlled (for those upgrading from paid PS) and I don't think there's been any promise made of changes to availability there.
Nov 4, 2021, 2:22 pm
#87
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
Programs: DL DM 1.929MM, Hilton Lifetime Diamond, IHG Platinum, Avis CHM, Marriott Titanium (lifetime gold)
Posts: 7,860
David
Nov 4, 2021, 2:23 pm
#88
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
Programs: DL DM 1.929MM, Hilton Lifetime Diamond, IHG Platinum, Avis CHM, Marriott Titanium (lifetime gold)
Posts: 7,860
Based on the email "As part of these changes, you'll see more premium seats eligible for upgrades with Global Upgrade Certificates as we expand our Delta Premium Select cabin"
Looks like Delta is trying to sell more Delta Premium Select, and have GUCs mainly be an instrument to upgrade to Delta Premium Select. They rather not drive GUC use for business class, and even if GUCs are used, they have met their goal of people purchasing more Premium Select seats.
I agree that this is poor planning for the long game. Personally, I would choose a foreign carrier over a domestic airline for European and Asian flights, unless I am using a GUC.
I believe people would have been happier with the trade off, if the GUC allowed instant upgrade to any available revenue seat, rather than GUC instrument availability that is unpredictable. If people spend money, they want predictability, not uncertainty.
Looks like Delta is trying to sell more Delta Premium Select, and have GUCs mainly be an instrument to upgrade to Delta Premium Select. They rather not drive GUC use for business class, and even if GUCs are used, they have met their goal of people purchasing more Premium Select seats.
I agree that this is poor planning for the long game. Personally, I would choose a foreign carrier over a domestic airline for European and Asian flights, unless I am using a GUC.
I believe people would have been happier with the trade off, if the GUC allowed instant upgrade to any available revenue seat, rather than GUC instrument availability that is unpredictable. If people spend money, they want predictability, not uncertainty.
David
Nov 4, 2021, 2:23 pm
#89
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 237
Does anyone know if you can use 2 GUC to upgrade from Y to J?
Nov 4, 2021, 2:24 pm
#90
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Programs: Delta Diamond, Bonvoy something good; sometimes other things too
Posts: 5,050
Fair enough, but that change doesn't affect any currently active RUCs, since all currently active RUCs expire 1/31/23 so they already have a longer lifespan than the old/current 12-month rules would imply. Going forward that may be a downside for future selections, but future selections will be made knowing the new rules.