Nov 4, 2021, 9:13 am
Last edit by: Utskicat
New master GUC thread started for GUC discussion post 2/1 rules with class codes and aircraft scenario chart in that WIKI.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delt...2-changes.html
Effective February 1 (including if waitlisted but haven't cleared) GUC change. RUC do not change at all, except for change in expiration date policy.
You will clear immediately into First Class on any connecting flights that have a First Class cabin and any available First Class seats for sale. This only applies when using a GUC -- RUCs will continue to require available upgrade inventory to clear immediately.
DL operated Flights with PS -
You now will clear immediately to PS as long as any seats are available for sale. No needing to hope for upgrade space. You will be added to waitlist for D1 that will clear starting at T-24. You do not need an additional upgrade certificate for the D1 waitlist, a single upgrade certificate (per person-direction) covers PS at booking + D1 waitlist. There is no option to use 2 certificates to upgrade from main cabin to D1.
If you wish to upgrade to D1 before T-24 you must buy a PS fare and there must be upgrade award space.
DL operated flights without PS -
Main cabin fare can upgrade to D1 if award space is available at anytime. (No change)
Partner flights -
KLM flights continue to upgrade to business class for now. KLM is in the process of introducing a real premium economy cabin.
Air France flights have reverted to old rules, either buy economy and upgrade to premium economy or buy premium economy and upgrade to business.
Virgin Atlantic flights are buy economy and upgrade to premium economy or buy premium economy and upgrade to business.
Partner-operated flights upgraded to premium economy do not include the business class waitlist within 24 hours.
More to be added as more time allows. Feel free to help edit.
EXPIRATION DATE CHANGES
Starting 2/1/22, RUC & GUC expiration dates will change. They will no longer be valid for 12 months from the date you select them -- they will be valid through the end of that Medallion Year.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delt...2-changes.html
Effective February 1 (including if waitlisted but haven't cleared) GUC change. RUC do not change at all, except for change in expiration date policy.
You will clear immediately into First Class on any connecting flights that have a First Class cabin and any available First Class seats for sale. This only applies when using a GUC -- RUCs will continue to require available upgrade inventory to clear immediately.
DL operated Flights with PS -
You now will clear immediately to PS as long as any seats are available for sale. No needing to hope for upgrade space. You will be added to waitlist for D1 that will clear starting at T-24. You do not need an additional upgrade certificate for the D1 waitlist, a single upgrade certificate (per person-direction) covers PS at booking + D1 waitlist. There is no option to use 2 certificates to upgrade from main cabin to D1.
If you wish to upgrade to D1 before T-24 you must buy a PS fare and there must be upgrade award space.
DL operated flights without PS -
Main cabin fare can upgrade to D1 if award space is available at anytime. (No change)
Partner flights -
KLM flights continue to upgrade to business class for now. KLM is in the process of introducing a real premium economy cabin.
Air France flights have reverted to old rules, either buy economy and upgrade to premium economy or buy premium economy and upgrade to business.
Virgin Atlantic flights are buy economy and upgrade to premium economy or buy premium economy and upgrade to business.
Partner-operated flights upgraded to premium economy do not include the business class waitlist within 24 hours.
More to be added as more time allows. Feel free to help edit.
EXPIRATION DATE CHANGES
Starting 2/1/22, RUC & GUC expiration dates will change. They will no longer be valid for 12 months from the date you select them -- they will be valid through the end of that Medallion Year.
Delta changes/devaluation to GUC Program -2022 (Only 1 Class of Service Upgrade)
Nov 4, 2021, 7:38 am
#16
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Programs: Delta Diamond, Bonvoy something good; sometimes other things too
Posts: 5,050
This is a surprising move after Delta had generally been seeming to go in the direction of customer-friendly changes for the elite program and especially Diamond Medallion in recent years (despite overall customer-unfriendly changes to the SkyMiles program).
I agree with other posters that perhaps the logjam of elites and backlogs of rolled-over MQMs that will be filtering out over the next few years led them to think something should be done, but honestly it's not like upgrade availability was ever all that generous for D1 so they were easily able to control how much value they wanted GUCs to have. Indeed they could have made this change but said "1 GUC gets you last seat PS + D1 (at any time before departure) based on upgrade availability", and just tightened up the advance upgrade availability bucket even further behind the scenes, and it would have sounded like a wholly positive change despite not being one.
This change will make the inability to waitlist upgrades ex-AMS/CDG a much bigger issue. It seems like this basically means that it is not possible to get D1 ex-AMS/CDG on a plane with a PS cabin.
Also, I guess if anyone has GUC choice benefits available to select that they now don't expect to use, you might as well select GUCs before Nov 15 and can then cash them in for 32K miles, rather than the default alternative of 25K miles if you choose miles directly as your choice benefit. Though the mileage cash-in page is a bit clunky, it's an all-or-nothing choice which may be inconvenient in some cases if you wanted to cash in only a portion of your certificates (especially now since many may have quite a few built up with all the extensions and rollovers).
I agree with other posters that perhaps the logjam of elites and backlogs of rolled-over MQMs that will be filtering out over the next few years led them to think something should be done, but honestly it's not like upgrade availability was ever all that generous for D1 so they were easily able to control how much value they wanted GUCs to have. Indeed they could have made this change but said "1 GUC gets you last seat PS + D1 (at any time before departure) based on upgrade availability", and just tightened up the advance upgrade availability bucket even further behind the scenes, and it would have sounded like a wholly positive change despite not being one.
This change will make the inability to waitlist upgrades ex-AMS/CDG a much bigger issue. It seems like this basically means that it is not possible to get D1 ex-AMS/CDG on a plane with a PS cabin.
Also, I guess if anyone has GUC choice benefits available to select that they now don't expect to use, you might as well select GUCs before Nov 15 and can then cash them in for 32K miles, rather than the default alternative of 25K miles if you choose miles directly as your choice benefit. Though the mileage cash-in page is a bit clunky, it's an all-or-nothing choice which may be inconvenient in some cases if you wanted to cash in only a portion of your certificates (especially now since many may have quite a few built up with all the extensions and rollovers).
Last edited by bgriff; Nov 4, 2021 at 7:43 am
Nov 4, 2021, 8:29 am
#17
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Programs: DL DM, 1.5 MM; AS MVP Gold 100K; HHonors Diamond; AMEX Platinum
Posts: 488
From my perspective GUCs have not been useful. They were just too difficult to use. Now they're even less beneficial. I'm a leasiure traveler, and have switched to WFBF (including WJBJ). So I'll look for the best value for my J dollars and fly Delta when they make it worth my $$.
Nov 4, 2021, 8:29 am
#18
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: IND
Programs: DL DM, UA & AA Peeon, Hilton/Starwood Gold
Posts: 875
I agree with other posters that perhaps the logjam of elites and backlogs of rolled-over MQMs that will be filtering out over the next few years led them to think something should be done, but honestly it's not like upgrade availability was ever all that generous for D1 so they were easily able to control how much value they wanted GUCs to have. Indeed they could have made this change but said "1 GUC gets you last seat PS + D1 (at any time before departure) based on upgrade availability", and just tightened up the advance upgrade availability bucket even further behind the scenes, and it would have sounded like a wholly positive change despite not being one.
This change will make the inability to waitlist upgrades ex-AMS/CDG a much bigger issue. It seems like this basically means that it is not possible to get D1 ex-AMS/CDG on a plane with a PS cabin.
This change will make the inability to waitlist upgrades ex-AMS/CDG a much bigger issue. It seems like this basically means that it is not possible to get D1 ex-AMS/CDG on a plane with a PS cabin.
“not possible,” the already favorite phrase of KLM agents in Amsterdam, now to be used more often!
Nov 4, 2021, 8:32 am
#19
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: LIT
Programs: Blinged Out
Posts: 716
I would be fine with this change if we were allowed to stack GUCS as a choice Benefit. In my case, It would be guest access and 8 gucs…
Nov 4, 2021, 8:37 am
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Back in Reds Country (DAY/CVG). Previously: SEA & SAT.
Programs: DL PM 1MM, AA PLAT, UA Silver, Marriott Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 10,355
From my perspective GUCs have not been useful. They were just too difficult to use. Now they're even less beneficial. I'm a leasiure traveler, and have switched to WFBF (including WJBJ). So I'll look for the best value for my J dollars and fly Delta when they make it worth my $$.
I've been quite happy with my PM benefits and for now don't expect that to change, but I was always bummed that DM was out of reach (except for one year, before the $250K AmEx MQD waiver was required) since it was a pretty significant jump in value and benefits to go from PM to DM and I did get GUCs (and used them, even clearing at booking) the year I made DM. Next year though, if I happen to get DM through MQDs from work travel, then I won't complain but to me, this change just drastically shrunk the gap between PM and DM.
Nov 4, 2021, 8:44 am
#22
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: LIT
Programs: Blinged Out
Posts: 716
Also this could screw over AMEX/DL partnership as DM has been devalued. I am likely to dump my plat and keep the reserve simply for SC access.
Nov 4, 2021, 8:44 am
#23
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: VPS, previously SEA and PIT
Programs: DL Diamond/1MM, Hilton Diamond, Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 1,201
If they're really concerned with the glut of medallions from all their status extensions, why keep giving them? All they've done is devalue and not recognize the medallions who continued to earn status the past 2 years.
Nov 4, 2021, 8:51 am
#24
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 237
This has just made me want to reconsider the mileage run I was going to do to earn the MQD's for Diamond.
Nov 4, 2021, 8:56 am
#25
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: VPS, previously SEA and PIT
Programs: DL Diamond/1MM, Hilton Diamond, Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 1,201
So here's a question; for GUCs/RUCs and the new expiration date, is it retroactive? I.e., if I haven't chosen my RUCs for this year (and technically last year since I have until Jan 31), am I SOL with getting a year to use them, or does it only take effect next year? If I'm SOL, I may finally bite the bullet and become a FA, because I've continued to earn PM yet seen nothing but devaluations and everyone else get status extended.
Nov 4, 2021, 9:13 am
#26
Join Date: Sep 2011
Programs: Delta DM, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,495
Does this change impact using GUCs on KLM at all? Unlike AF, I don't believe KLM has a premium economy on any of their planes (only a C+ equivalent), so as long as Z space is available in advance, would we still get an upgrade directly to business on a (non-basic) economy ticket?
Nov 4, 2021, 9:20 am
#27
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wesley Chapel, FL
Programs: American Airlines
Posts: 30,024
So your new program gets you to use a SWU (GUC?) but to upgrade from a coach seat to a coach seat with 3 more inches seat pitch? That's it? Tell me it ain't so.
Nov 4, 2021, 9:25 am
#28
Join Date: Jun 2021
Programs: DL Diamond, UA Gold, Marriott Ambassador, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 200
Clearly a devaluation, but you can still get several thousands of dollars in value out of GUCs. We just flew ATL->CDG round trip for $670 roundtrip/person with cleared GUCs into DL1 at booking. Honestly, sort of absurd that we got >$3,000 per GUC in value.
Now, looking ahead at a dummy booking, if you buy Premium Select you'll likely have better chance of clearing into DL1 with GUCs and still can get $2000-$2500 in value out of the GUCs. Obviously you need to spend more to begin with but I think there's still a lot of value.
Hopefully they'll give more than 4 GUCs a year now.
Now, looking ahead at a dummy booking, if you buy Premium Select you'll likely have better chance of clearing into DL1 with GUCs and still can get $2000-$2500 in value out of the GUCs. Obviously you need to spend more to begin with but I think there's still a lot of value.
Hopefully they'll give more than 4 GUCs a year now.
Nov 4, 2021, 9:26 am
#29
Join Date: Jun 2021
Programs: DL Diamond, UA Gold, Marriott Ambassador, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 200
No. Premium Select is a proper Premium Economy product not comfort+. Comfort+ upgrades clear at booking for free.
Nov 4, 2021, 9:27 am
#30
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,417
Honestly, I feel like this is the first nail in the coffin for the D1 cabin more than anything else. Commenters upthread asked why they don't just rescale to Y/J/F again and while I'm sure that's at least 10 years out, DL is already the leader in not installing J seats on their aircraft. This just continues to cement PE as a "real" class of service, and it's only a matter of time before budget cuts on corporate travel policies, especially with rewrites after the pandemic.