PointsPanda

I know circumstantial evidence doesn't mean proof. But I do think the timing is very funky with Vivaaerobus and Volaris rapidly moving into American and United's coveted Texas <--> Mexico market, right when fares between the 2 countries are at an all time high. Either way FAA has no credibility after the max scandal anyways, they've proven to be nothing more than the lobbying arm of Boeing and the big 3. Seems to be behind the scenes lobbying to stop Mexican LCC's from expanding more than they have, albeit temporarily.

Most likely this will be reverted in a few months but thats just enough time for United and American to continue to cash in on the vaccine tourism of Mexican flyers coming to Texas to get vaxxed which has been sending fares through the roof and keeping fares artificially high. Arguably Aeromexico benefits too, or at least its a net-netural for them. Sure they got their codeshares with DL (temporarily) messed up, but to hurt the Mexican LLC's its a small price to pay.

The Mexican LCC's all had plans to increase schedules and new routes as well to meet this demand, now they won't be able to, keeping fare high. With other profitable international routes currently on hold because of covid, this seems like a protectionist play by Boeing-FAA to kneecap Vivaerobus and Volaris. I know there isn't any concrete proof but the timing is very suspicious. The fact the FAA did this relatively unannounced without giving Mexico time to fix the issues is suspicious too.

When in doubt, follow the money 🤷🏼‍♂️

RobertS975

Cynical viewpoint.... you (and I) have absolutely no idea how long American authorities were campaigning and warning their Mexican counterparts to get up to snuff! What seems to be an abrupt event with little warning almost certainly was proceeded by a long period of attempting to get this done quietly!

exwannabe

If this really does end up blocking DL codeshares, they can still sell tickets with AM flight numbers.

I really have no idea how this matters any more. They have "rules" on how miles and all work on codeshares, but they can always change that.

flyerCO

They cant market or sell them anymore. However there's nothing in rules that says existing tickets must be switched.

As DL/AM have a JV they split costs/revenues regardless of which operates the flight. This will have little impact on them even if they did have to reissue.

Global Adventurer

So far my DL flight operated by AM, is still on schedule.

Global Adventurer

UPDATE: Today, I noticed one of my Aeromexico/Delta flights mysteriously dissappeared. The other one on my return trip was still confirmed and good to go. I had Delta reissue the flight, and now it's only a "Delta" flight. Well, later on today, I noticed the other flight said unconfirmed, and I figure it was being cancelled too. Yep, I called and was told Delta has been cancelling aeromexico flights today. So, I was rebooked on all Delta flights.

flyerCO

What's strange is they can still sell the AM flight number. Did they not offer those flights or did you not ask for them?

Also co-worker had no issue checking in for their SAT-MEX flight this week that was sold as DL codeshare (sold before downgrade).

Global Adventurer

This particular flight has been canceled twice already, no way did I want them to rebook a similar one. I just checked and they still show the same flights bookable. But, they'll sooner or later be canceled. Not sure what's going on, but so far, four of my Aeromexico flights have been cancelled since first booking this round trip ticket a few months ago. My flight is for July.

I have no clue what is going on, but I can say for a fact all 4 of those flights were canceled. They all had different flight numbers. I'll just stick with the Delta flights. Your friend was lucky I guess.

Global Adventurer

....first it was Aeromexico operated by AM, then that was cancelled and then it went to Delta operated by Aeromexico and those were canceled. I'll keep what I have now, all Delta, operated by Delta.

*just a side note: I've flown on Delta/Aeromexico cobranded flights too many times I couldn't tell you how many, but they usually just change the times, sometimes they change planes but seldom do they just completely cancel them. That's why I rather be safe than sorry and stick with Delta for now until Mexico is upgraded again.

flyerCO

The downgrade has nothing to do with cancelled flights, except that DL can no longer sell an AM flight with a DL flight number.

Your flight issue is likely that DL is slowly cancelling the DL codeshare flight numbers. The AM flight is still operating most likely. If you prefer DL metal, great. However AM isn't canceling flights because of downgrade.

Global Adventurer

I don't know what they're doing. All I know is my AM flights and Delta (Operated by Aeromexico) flights were all canceled for whatever reason, and I don't even want to deal with calling them again. It's ridiculous.

keitherson

I thought this was me being fed BS, but I've gotten the same reply from two different agents (on the phone, and over iMessage).

"Until further notice, DL/AM flights are suspended due to an audit that the FAA is processing with Aeromexico. AM/AM flights booked with Delta cannot be upgraded using Certs. They are only allowed on DL marketed flights and the ticket must be issued on DL ticket stock."

Effectively this means on all US-touching routes, such as LAX-MEX, JFK-MEX, etc. it is therefore impossible to upgrade on AM metal flights using both Regional Upgrade Certificates and Global Upgrade Certificates

From my research it's going back to 2021 from the FAA air safety downgrade: https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...ty-2021-05-25/

I have not seen anything posted on FT so far on how this affected upgrades.

This had resulted in DL having to also reissue all DL codeshares into AM flight numbers: https://pro.delta.com/content/agency...ed-june-1.html

And from my search, indeed DL only sells AM flight numbers even if on DL stock and these cannot be upgraded.

It is unclear to me:
- whether this impacts complimentary upgrades from DL Medallion status on USA-MEX and MEX-USA flights processed by AM (MEX domestic flights on AM ticket stock seem unaffected)
- whether this impacts using DL Globals on non-US AM routes (e.g. MEX-LHR -- I think it's a no)

This does not stop you from paying for confirmed business tickets (miles or cash) or earning Skymiles on AM flights. But it's affecting the amount of business (including whatever DL pays AM for the upgrades using instruments) that DL is allowed to give AM and it trickles down to Medallion upgrades.

flyerCO

This title is both deceptive and incorrect.

RUC/GLOBAL do require DL marketing to use on AM operated. However if DL wanted they could allow on AM marketed, just like they do for AF/KL. The FAA has nothing to do with this.

Next medallion upgrades are not effected.

keitherson

There are NO DL marketed AM operated flights being sold PERIOD

And if they wanted to use the RUC/GUC terms to disqualify the upgrade, they could have said that. But it's not the terms, they are specifically bringing up the FAA, on two separate occasions by two separate agents.

FYI the DL marketed requirement is not a hard requirement, that's just to ensure DL can access the itinerary to reissue

flyerCO

Marketing has no bearing on reissue unless airline makes it one. Whose ticket stock is what matters in respect to be able to reissue. Unless airline A gives airline B access, airline B can't take control and reissue new eticket.

FAA has nothing directly to do. Its just agents not understanding how things work and blaming the FAA. DL could make an agreement with AM just like AF/KL. they've chosen not to do so. The FAA isn't prohibiting upgrades. They're just prohibiting US carriers from codesharing on Mexican carriers. Yes, indirectly this mean can't use GUC/RUC on AM. HOWEVER, again DL can easily fix this, they've chosen not to do so. This isn't the FAAs fault, that DL hasn't changed their agreement with AM. In fact if anything it is likely fact other things have been more pressing matters. Plus fact AM was/is in bankruptcy protection. (Meaning altering agreements is not easy)