flannbarr

We (wife, son and me) are flying to Milan, Italy and home from Zurich, Switzerland (both via AMS) in July/August 2020. We live in the Detroit, Michigan area. We normally fly on Delta from DTW.

We are planning on flying first/business class. We can fly from DTW on the Delta A-350 with their Delta One product. Alternatively, I can fly from Toronto (which is a 4 hour drive from Detroit) on a KLM 747-400 (older one) and save over $1,100 per person. That's a lot of money!

I have never flown upstairs on a 747. It does not appear that the 747 has nearly as nice of a first class product as the Delta One on the A-350, but $3,300 for 3 of us is a lot of money.

If it matters at all, I am 6'4" tall and weigh 290 lbs. (yes I need to lose weight!).

Both flights will earn Delta SkyMiles for us so that is not a factor.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated. I also posted in the KLM forum for their thoughts.

ijgordon

I think the savings, which are substantial, warrant taking the inferior KL product, although everyone will value $3,300 differently. Also, the 4 hour drive is certainly a strike against it, but probably not enough to splurge on Delta IMO. That said, the KL seat configuration is good for couples, it's 2-2 in the UD, but one of you will have to be next to a stranger. Given your size (presumably you have large feet also) you'll probably want a bulkhead seat -- this type of seat has a narrow foot well, but they're wider in the bulkhead. I'm sure there's more specifics in the KLM forum.

findark

Save over three grand and ride on the UD for the first time? Sounds like an easy decision, even if KL product is admittedly quite a bit worse

MSPeconomist

Neither DL nor KLM offer longhaul international first class. D1 is business class, although it's nice on wide body aircraft because it's 100% direct aisle access seating, in a 1-2-1 configuration.

manacit

To me, it all depends on how much that $3k is worth to you.

The DL option is definitely going to be a better hard and soft product though and through. KLM has some of the worst J food I’ve ever had the displeasure of trying to eat, and the 350 suite is going to be new and fresh compared to a tired KLM J.

That being said, the 747 is a dying breed and I would consider flying it just for the UD experience. The DTW-AMS flight isn’t sufficiently long for the hard product to make a huge difference, hopefully you’ll spend most of your way over there sleeping anyway, and on the way back you may never even see your seat fully flat anyway.

If it were me, I’d probably end up opting to save $$ — I’ve done almost the exact same thing flying from YVR instead of SEA to save a few bucks.

eneq

It's only a 7ish hour long flight. I'd say go with the savings. The KLM 747 isn't a bad product, and you'll each get one of the KLM little Dutch houses to take home.

mayhem

KL if you're any bit of an aviation geek
- 744s will be leaving the fleet by EOY 2020; it's a unique aircraft and the UD feels really private
- I found the DL 1 suites still quite narrow, but maybe that's just a bad the recollection
- KL has 2 single seats on the lower deck, 1A being the preferred one, but then you're not on the UD
- KL food is not as great, but then again, DL food is always the same
- KL 744 IFE is pretty old but still a big screen, just bad resolution

That said; you could still do a ZRH-AMS-JFK-DTW on the way back and get the 744 that way perhaps? Although the 744 flies late in the evening so I don't know if you have a connection to DTW at that time. 4 hours drive on the way back after traveling all day seems as painful as adding in the extra layover in JFK.

The Situation

Although an inferior hard product, riding upper deck 747 is a unique experience that will get harder and harder to find so you should take advantage of the opportunity while you have it. Add in the savings and its a no brainer. With cuts to DL's catering in the last couple years, I think KL's food is actually a little better than DL's food now.

GW McLintock

Four hours each way is a long time to drive, just to get on a plane for 7+ hours. That said, I think it's worth it if you're saving 3 grand. The upper deck will be an experience.

Plus, it gives you an excuse to get maple cream cookies on the way home before crossing the border

-J.

tearex

I'd go with the savings and flying UD before it goes away. The A350 will be here awhile yet.

lking

How about take train/shuttle/fly from DTW to Toronto, fly KLM UD 747. Return to DTW on A350. You will have saved a ton of money and experienced both. If not possible, I vote for UD 747. A350 is okay, the only neat thing is the privacy door. But UD 747 -- WOW!!

tbaiyun

I heard about that there was a kind of transfer service from Detroit/Windsor to YYZ, it may be cheaper and you may not want to drive after a long-haul flight (think about "Do you want more champagne, sir?", "Nada, I have to drive" situation).

Travelling in 3 with KL's 747, I will suggest getting 1A, 1J, 1K, that is super private and you will feel like taking a private jet. I personally don't like the upper deck on 747.

I heard about AF is putting their first 350 on YYZ-CDG as well, but for a limited time only.

flyerCO

I would take KLM 747 hands down for cost difference. While mot as nice as DL, the meal is good. In fact I like fact KL doesn't try and do fancy. Fancy is great on ground, in air fancy just isn't helpful.

Theres 3 single seats on KL 747. 1A, 4A, and 4E (which is the throne seat). All other seats are in a 2 x 2 configuration.

Two questions/ suggestions.

1)Have you priced flying from YYZ, with DL? You could even do YYZ-AMS on way out and book AMS-DTW-YYZ on way back, skipping the DTW-YYZ flight. What rough pricing are you currently seeing?
2)If you do decide to book from YYZ, you can book a DL ticket separately to go DTW-YYZ. DL will protect you if late across tickets since you're flying onward with KLM.

Is there particular dates in July/August? Happy to see if anything prices out in manner suggestion 1 works that's close to what you're seeing.

flannbarr

There are no savings if flying from Toronto and back to DTW.

flyerCO

You still book it back to YYZ, but via AMS and DTW instead. DL and KL codeshare on all their flights. You can book YYZ-EU RT and goto AMS nonstop or with connection in DTW/JFK. (Possibly going via JFK-EU nonstop skipping AMS.)