HuffPo: Delta Tried to Trap Its Own Flight Attendants
Jun 2, 2019, 11:28 am
#16
Join Date: Feb 2015
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My two cents as an Airline Captain: HP probably sensationalized a bit to make the story sound juicier than it actually was. However, airlines will literally do almost anything to staff a flight. Ultimately crew members are bound by FAR 117 rules, with any company/contract/union rules as well, provided they do not violate FAR 117. When times get desperate, airlines (particularly dispatchers and crew schedulers) start looking for any way to legally dispatch a flight. They honestly tend to forget humans are actually working the flight and just start seeing numbers. I can see a version of this happening in an attempt to get the flight out. Airline crewmembers overall are extremely abused schedule wise. While FAR 117 was a good attempt, it still easily can create fatigue. (Speaking as someone who has been close to timing out multiple times over the past week).
Jun 2, 2019, 12:37 pm
#19
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,881
If you read the article, you’ll notice that the door was opened and the flight attendants didn’t leave. The flight attendants saw all the messages being sent about this—they weren’t trapped and info wasn’t being hidden from them regarding the situation.
Jun 2, 2019, 12:41 pm
#20
Join Date: Sep 2014
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”But the correspondence makes clear that the flight attendants understood what was going on and weren’t happy about it. An attendant listed as “flight leader” said they knew the operations team was trying to “trap” them on the plane, although the attendants were staying to work voluntarily.
“Since we are deciding to stay although y’all are trying to trap us on the plane, and now our layover has been shortened and we will be past our duty day, hungry and tired. It would be nice to have a deadhead at some point tomorrow.”
Jun 2, 2019, 12:58 pm
#21
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,881
And the F/A in charge made clear in the texts the word “trap”.
”But the correspondence makes clear that the flight attendants understood what was going on and weren’t happy about it. An attendant listed as “flight leader” said they knew the operations team was trying to “trap” them on the plane, although the attendants were staying to work voluntarily.
“Since we are deciding to stay although y’all are trying to trap us on the plane, and now our layover has been shortened and we will be past our duty day, hungry and tired. It would be nice to have a deadhead at some point tomorrow.”
Jun 2, 2019, 1:47 pm
#22
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Jun 2, 2019, 2:32 pm
#23
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There are a lot of details missing from this. The captain gives the final word on whether or not to close the door. If there was a Mx issue, they couldn't close the door anyway and opening the door would reset the clock if the Mx personnel had to visit the flight deck.
Jun 2, 2019, 2:41 pm
#24
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Jun 2, 2019, 2:51 pm
#25
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Even though the DL intent and the instructions were clearly to physically trap them in the aircraft...and fly them to YYZ....sounds like forced captivity and forced labor and taking them across international borders...That was at least the intent...
Last edited by nk15; Jun 2, 2019 at 3:14 pm
Jun 2, 2019, 3:32 pm
#26
Join Date: Sep 2014
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Except it sounds like the decision to stay had already been agreed upon amongst the crew, and they wanted to make it clear to OPS that they were well aware of what OPS plan was once the messages started flying. Which tells me that this force the door closed scenario has played out before. You can’t tell us that management doesn’t know this goes on.
Jun 2, 2019, 3:51 pm
#27
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,875
But are they allowed to when they are stuck on the tarmac for hours?
Jun 2, 2019, 5:47 pm
#29
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,881
The controversial conversation happened between a low-level OCC employee and gate agent, not between managers at the level that union busting happens. Are you saying that the gate agent is both (1) participating in the union busting/intimidation while (2) simultaneously being a victim of intimidation?
Jun 2, 2019, 7:00 pm
#30
Join Date: Dec 2018
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They were not "trapped". It is the age old dilemma regarding voluntary overtime. Those who want to earn the higher pay rate do, and those who don't feel "trapped" if they are part of a team that wants to stay. In this case, it had to be unanimous to stay or they all would miss out. Perhaps the pressure on the crew came from some of the FA's on that plane who wanted to make the overtime putting pressure on the ones who did not? This is not some kind of "management vs labor" tired old narrative. The FA's maintained their full autonomy.
At least they can "time out". Some of us don't have the luxury to refuse working extra hours.
Those of us who are self-employed don't get paid vacation, sick days, and overtime pay. If we don't work we don't make a thing. So it's all relative.
But, yeah, I hate flying when it's a delayed "last flight of the day" too, and I can't blame some members of that crew trying to get a little something in return for sticking it out.
And by the way, since this article was written by HP in part to stir the unionization pot, if DL FA's don't unionize and they just stick their $700 yearly dues payment into a retirement account at 8% annual returns with dividends reinvested, they will have over $87,000 in 30 years.
Will a union give them more value over that time?
At least they can "time out". Some of us don't have the luxury to refuse working extra hours.
Those of us who are self-employed don't get paid vacation, sick days, and overtime pay. If we don't work we don't make a thing. So it's all relative.
But, yeah, I hate flying when it's a delayed "last flight of the day" too, and I can't blame some members of that crew trying to get a little something in return for sticking it out.
And by the way, since this article was written by HP in part to stir the unionization pot, if DL FA's don't unionize and they just stick their $700 yearly dues payment into a retirement account at 8% annual returns with dividends reinvested, they will have over $87,000 in 30 years.
Will a union give them more value over that time?