Delta Removes Global Entry Voucher from Choice Benefits as of Today (2/21/2019)
Feb 21, 2019, 10:14 pm
#16
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,884
Some people have more pride than that and believe strongly in classical liberalism. I too am a non-pre/GE Diamond and I would wait in line for days before actively supporting a system that creates special privileges for those that meet an arbitrary risk score output by a secret algorithm using inputs that may or may be right with no process for judicial review. It is no better than the Chinese social credit system that is rightfully mocked in the US.
I would give Delta kudos for axing the Global Entry voucher, but I doubt it was based on any principle given how in bed Delta is in general with the DHS.
I would give Delta kudos for axing the Global Entry voucher, but I doubt it was based on any principle given how in bed Delta is in general with the DHS.
We all have our cost/convenience thresholds - I won't pay the $250 or more that Delta charges for whatever they call their celebrity service that guarantees the Porsche transfer and expedited security, but there are those who do, and I bet their reasoning isn't that different from mine.
So, I see GE/Pre as a way to advantage myself over those who can't/won't/can't be bothered to utilize a tool that can make their trip a little tiny bit easier - and when I go through that GE or PreCheck line I am actually making things ever so slightly better for those who don't, by not being in their line.
So, it's a win/win!
Feb 21, 2019, 11:09 pm
#17
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Programs: DL PM, MR Titanium/LTP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 10,130
Some people have more pride than that and believe strongly in classical liberalism. I too am a non-pre/GE Diamond and I would wait in line for days before actively supporting a system that creates special privileges for those that meet an arbitrary risk score output by a secret algorithm using inputs that may or may be right with no process for judicial review. It is no better than the Chinese social credit system that is rightfully mocked in the US.
I would give Delta kudos for axing the Global Entry voucher, but I doubt it was based on any principle given how in bed Delta is in general with the DHS.
I would give Delta kudos for axing the Global Entry voucher, but I doubt it was based on any principle given how in bed Delta is in general with the DHS.
Feb 21, 2019, 11:40 pm
#18
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 277
I’m personally a lot more comfortable with the existence of GE than PreCheck, and ended up getting that once I had a credit card offering it. But I’m still pretty unhappy about them. (Mobile Passport etc continue to make me feel a lot better about GE though, as they continue trying to roll out cost and time savings as widely as possible there!)
Feb 22, 2019, 12:05 am
#19
Join Date: May 2011
Programs: Delta Diamond; Marriott Gold Elite
Posts: 170
I'm a Diamond with no GE. I admit I was waiting to use a choice benefit to get it, but then I learned it couldn't be used with someone with a foreign address so I kind of dropped the idea.
When the lines have been absolute disasters, I just use Mobile Passport to get through immigration. I fly through LAX primarily and have never had to wait more than 5 minutes. Very often there is no line.
When the lines have been absolute disasters, I just use Mobile Passport to get through immigration. I fly through LAX primarily and have never had to wait more than 5 minutes. Very often there is no line.
Feb 22, 2019, 5:26 am
#20
Join Date: Feb 2017
Programs: DL DM, UA Gold, Alaska MVP, Bonvoy (lol) Ambassador
Posts: 2,994
I admire your principle, I just don't share it. I guess I just see it as spending 20 bucks a year to reduce my personal inconvenience. It's definitely not that I have any confidence at all in their security theater, I don't. But I will happily pay extra for concert tickets to get priority seating - and often, early entry and/or a separate entry gate. I go to movie theaters where I can buy my tickets and reserve specific seats online so that I can avoid the lines there - and my favorite one has wait staff that take your order right from your seat and deliver before the movie starts.
We all have our cost/convenience thresholds - I won't pay the $250 or more that Delta charges for whatever they call their celebrity service that guarantees the Porsche transfer and expedited security, but there are those who do, and I bet their reasoning isn't that different from mine.
So, I see GE/Pre as a way to advantage myself over those who can't/won't/can't be bothered to utilize a tool that can make their trip a little tiny bit easier - and when I go through that GE or PreCheck line I am actually making things ever so slightly better for those who don't, by not being in their line.
So, it's a win/win!
We all have our cost/convenience thresholds - I won't pay the $250 or more that Delta charges for whatever they call their celebrity service that guarantees the Porsche transfer and expedited security, but there are those who do, and I bet their reasoning isn't that different from mine.
So, I see GE/Pre as a way to advantage myself over those who can't/won't/can't be bothered to utilize a tool that can make their trip a little tiny bit easier - and when I go through that GE or PreCheck line I am actually making things ever so slightly better for those who don't, by not being in their line.
So, it's a win/win!
My concern over "trusted traveler" programs have nothing to do with the application fee. There is nothing wrong with a government charging a use fee for a service, and I would argue that in most cases that use fees are great. Paying for accelerated processing of an application (e.g., Passport) is good. It allows people to determine the relative value of speed, which often times incurs an additional cost (higher staffing rates for example). I would have no issue with a program that cost $1000 a year and guaranteed me access to the next available CBP agent (i.e., no waiting in line) - assuming that this program had no other entrance criteria.
The issue is that these programs do have other entrance criteria. The DHS has a risk score for pretty much everyone in the United States. These risk scores are generated using a secret (and often arbitrary) algorithm using inputs that are often incorrect, or derived from questionable sources. If your score is high enough, you end up on one of the various watch lists that the DHS maintains. The amalgamated "terrorist watch list" contains millions of people (a significant fraction of which are US citizens).
Most of the people on these lists have committed no crimes. Most of the people on this list are only there because of the people that they have communicated with, the places they have gone to, or the things they have posted or read online. All of these are things that are protected by the US constitution and generally recognized by most countries as a natural human right. Not that this is the only issue, but the distribution of people on these lists show highly disparate impact on certain groups (people of certain religions or national origin).
If you apply for a trusted traveler program and are on one of these lists (or otherwise have a high arbitrarily calculated high risk score) - despite having committed no crimes - you will be rejected from the program. And, while there is an appeal process within the DHS, this appeal process is purely an agency review and not a judicial review - an impartial court has no say in the matter of whether you are accepted to these programs.
That is my issue with Global Entry and Precheck. It has nothing to do with a $20/year fee.
If you want to talk about a strained metaphor to a frequent flyer program, imagine if Delta banned you from complimentary upgrades and forced you to board last because you happened to regularly call someone they didn't like. Oh, and all of the airlines share the same list, so you are treated this way by all airlines - not just Delta.
I won't post further on this topic here since it is better suited to other forums than the Delta forum, but hopefully this helps people realize that it is not the cost that is the fundamental issue with these programs.
Feb 22, 2019, 6:49 am
#21
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
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Posts: 100,413
There’s a substantial difference between business incentives provided by a private company and the government charging citizens money for something that, uh, reduces government costs in an “industry” the government mostly made up.
I’m personally a lot more comfortable with the existence of GE than PreCheck, and ended up getting that once I had a credit card offering it. But I’m still pretty unhappy about them. (Mobile Passport etc continue to make me feel a lot better about GE though, as they continue trying to roll out cost and time savings as widely as possible there!)
Mobile passport requires that one have a recent model cell phone.
Feb 22, 2019, 10:03 am
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,884
You (and some of the other posters trying to compare boarding order or complimentary upgrades) are missing my point entirely.
<.....>
I won't post further on this topic here since it is better suited to other forums than the Delta forum, but hopefully this helps people realize that it is not the cost that is the fundamental issue with these programs.
<.....>
I won't post further on this topic here since it is better suited to other forums than the Delta forum, but hopefully this helps people realize that it is not the cost that is the fundamental issue with these programs.
I agree that virtually everything about the TSA is stupid, and the only thing they don't fail at is being a low-skill, low-wage jobs program. But it's the program that we have, and until something changes I prefer to go on about my day and try to pick battles that I have a shot at winning.
Feb 22, 2019, 11:44 am
#24
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: UA Silver, BA Gold, DL Gold
Posts: 9,779
I'm a Diamond with no GE. I admit I was waiting to use a choice benefit to get it, but then I learned it couldn't be used with someone with a foreign address so I kind of dropped the idea.
When the lines have been absolute disasters, I just use Mobile Passport to get through immigration. I fly through LAX primarily and have never had to wait more than 5 minutes. Very often there is no line.
When the lines have been absolute disasters, I just use Mobile Passport to get through immigration. I fly through LAX primarily and have never had to wait more than 5 minutes. Very often there is no line.
Feb 22, 2019, 2:14 pm
#25
Join Date: Nov 2009
Programs: DL PM 1MM
Posts: 3,439
Eligibility for Global Entry
Feb 22, 2019, 2:36 pm
#26
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
As more and more employers reimburse GE enrollment, the value of the CC benefit diminishes. Not likely a big winner in the first place, it likely has a diminishing appeal as people presumably take the employer benefit and use their card benefit for something else.
Also, unlike the other choices, the fee is an application fee and not a fee for enrollment. For those who are denied, although irrational, this is a branding issue.
Also, unlike the other choices, the fee is an application fee and not a fee for enrollment. For those who are denied, although irrational, this is a branding issue.
Feb 22, 2019, 7:42 pm
#27
Join Date: May 2015
Location: NYC/Paris
Programs: DL Diamond
Posts: 111
Except that you can use Mobile Passport for free and waltz right through the same GE line.
Feb 22, 2019, 8:14 pm
#28
Join Date: May 2011
Programs: Delta Diamond; Marriott Gold Elite
Posts: 170
I asked if I could send it to a friend's address stateside but they said it had to be the account on record with SkyMiles.
I'm only Diamond because of the MQD waiver, and feared fallout from changing to my address from a foreign address to a US address and shortly thereafter back to a foreign address, so I just let the matter drop.
Feb 23, 2019, 4:58 pm
#29
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wayne, PA USA
Programs: DL MM, Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, HHonors Gold
Posts: 7,242
Some people have more pride than that and believe strongly in classical liberalism. I too am a non-pre/GE Diamond and I would wait in line for days before actively supporting a system that creates special privileges for those that meet an arbitrary risk score output by a secret algorithm using inputs that may or may be right with no process for judicial review. It is no better than the Chinese social credit system that is rightfully mocked in the US.
I would give Delta kudos for axing the Global Entry voucher, but I doubt it was based on any principle given how in bed Delta is in general with the DHS.
I would give Delta kudos for axing the Global Entry voucher, but I doubt it was based on any principle given how in bed Delta is in general with the DHS.
I kid - I understand where you're coming from, but I guess I'm an old-school limousine liberal. I'll espouse my liberal values in comfort
Feb 23, 2019, 5:04 pm
#30
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wayne, PA USA
Programs: DL MM, Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, HHonors Gold
Posts: 7,242
You (and some of the other posters trying to compare boarding order or complimentary upgrades) are missing my point entirely.
My concern over "trusted traveler" programs have nothing to do with the application fee. There is nothing wrong with a government charging a use fee for a service, and I would argue that in most cases that use fees are great. Paying for accelerated processing of an application (e.g., Passport) is good. It allows people to determine the relative value of speed, which often times incurs an additional cost (higher staffing rates for example). I would have no issue with a program that cost $1000 a year and guaranteed me access to the next available CBP agent (i.e., no waiting in line) - assuming that this program had no other entrance criteria.
The issue is that these programs do have other entrance criteria. The DHS has a risk score for pretty much everyone in the United States. These risk scores are generated using a secret (and often arbitrary) algorithm using inputs that are often incorrect, or derived from questionable sources. If your score is high enough, you end up on one of the various watch lists that the DHS maintains. The amalgamated "terrorist watch list" contains millions of people (a significant fraction of which are US citizens).
Most of the people on these lists have committed no crimes. Most of the people on this list are only there because of the people that they have communicated with, the places they have gone to, or the things they have posted or read online. All of these are things that are protected by the US constitution and generally recognized by most countries as a natural human right. Not that this is the only issue, but the distribution of people on these lists show highly disparate impact on certain groups (people of certain religions or national origin).
If you apply for a trusted traveler program and are on one of these lists (or otherwise have a high arbitrarily calculated high risk score) - despite having committed no crimes - you will be rejected from the program. And, while there is an appeal process within the DHS, this appeal process is purely an agency review and not a judicial review - an impartial court has no say in the matter of whether you are accepted to these programs.
That is my issue with Global Entry and Precheck. It has nothing to do with a $20/year fee.
If you want to talk about a strained metaphor to a frequent flyer program, imagine if Delta banned you from complimentary upgrades and forced you to board last because you happened to regularly call someone they didn't like. Oh, and all of the airlines share the same list, so you are treated this way by all airlines - not just Delta.
I won't post further on this topic here since it is better suited to other forums than the Delta forum, but hopefully this helps people realize that it is not the cost that is the fundamental issue with these programs.
My concern over "trusted traveler" programs have nothing to do with the application fee. There is nothing wrong with a government charging a use fee for a service, and I would argue that in most cases that use fees are great. Paying for accelerated processing of an application (e.g., Passport) is good. It allows people to determine the relative value of speed, which often times incurs an additional cost (higher staffing rates for example). I would have no issue with a program that cost $1000 a year and guaranteed me access to the next available CBP agent (i.e., no waiting in line) - assuming that this program had no other entrance criteria.
The issue is that these programs do have other entrance criteria. The DHS has a risk score for pretty much everyone in the United States. These risk scores are generated using a secret (and often arbitrary) algorithm using inputs that are often incorrect, or derived from questionable sources. If your score is high enough, you end up on one of the various watch lists that the DHS maintains. The amalgamated "terrorist watch list" contains millions of people (a significant fraction of which are US citizens).
Most of the people on these lists have committed no crimes. Most of the people on this list are only there because of the people that they have communicated with, the places they have gone to, or the things they have posted or read online. All of these are things that are protected by the US constitution and generally recognized by most countries as a natural human right. Not that this is the only issue, but the distribution of people on these lists show highly disparate impact on certain groups (people of certain religions or national origin).
If you apply for a trusted traveler program and are on one of these lists (or otherwise have a high arbitrarily calculated high risk score) - despite having committed no crimes - you will be rejected from the program. And, while there is an appeal process within the DHS, this appeal process is purely an agency review and not a judicial review - an impartial court has no say in the matter of whether you are accepted to these programs.
That is my issue with Global Entry and Precheck. It has nothing to do with a $20/year fee.
If you want to talk about a strained metaphor to a frequent flyer program, imagine if Delta banned you from complimentary upgrades and forced you to board last because you happened to regularly call someone they didn't like. Oh, and all of the airlines share the same list, so you are treated this way by all airlines - not just Delta.
I won't post further on this topic here since it is better suited to other forums than the Delta forum, but hopefully this helps people realize that it is not the cost that is the fundamental issue with these programs.