Why can't agents book/price 3-stop itineraries
Jan 30, 2019, 7:37 am
#16
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Yes, it is strange. I never said it was a domestic itinerary. I agree with you that the routing rules are overbroad, Many cities that serve neither ITH or SDQ are listed as potential first/last cxn points.
Jan 30, 2019, 7:42 am
#17
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Sure, you can create any routing that you want. There is just no guarantee that Delta will treat it as a single trip between city pairs. I specifically said requires. And my point still stands - no US city pairs require more than two stops to get between.
I don't think anyone here understands what you're asking.
If you're asking an agent to do a change for IRROPS, then they are usually flexible, but they have no obligations to pick whatever arbitrary routing you want. If you can get to A to B within a reasonable timeframe then they have fulfilled their obligation. Given that connecting at a bunch of extra hubs actually takes longer, I'm not surprised they don't want to put you on that route. Delta does not owe you any specific routing. If you don't like how that impacts your MQMs, then ask for original routing credit. Jeez.
I don't think anyone here understands what you're asking.
If you're asking an agent to do a change for IRROPS, then they are usually flexible, but they have no obligations to pick whatever arbitrary routing you want. If you can get to A to B within a reasonable timeframe then they have fulfilled their obligation. Given that connecting at a bunch of extra hubs actually takes longer, I'm not surprised they don't want to put you on that route. Delta does not owe you any specific routing. If you don't like how that impacts your MQMs, then ask for original routing credit. Jeez.
FFS, i was asking for routing explicitly allowed by the fare rules as posted above. I had a 4 segment trip at first, WX waiver hit, and wanted to retain a 4 segment trip, just via different (AND PERMISSIBLE) cities.
Is your purpose here to dissuade me from ever posting again? Because your arrogant hostility is not helping; I was asking why DL agents have issues (presumably technical rather than competency) with reissuing/rebooking such trips.
I'd gladly take one less cxn, btw
Jan 30, 2019, 7:46 am
#18
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The "normal" routing here would be ITH-DTW-ATL-SDQ. If you want to visit a third hub, going ITH-DTW-MSP-ATL-SDQ or ITH-DTW-LGA-ATL-SDQ might not look unreasonable.
However, one problem is that the ITH flights are normally operated with a CRJ-200 (about three times a day, so the connection times can be hard to get something reasonable) and delta.dumb tends to not offer G A P fares for the mainline connecting segments unless the flight you're trying to book is sold out in coach. It won't normally sell a FC through fare and just put you in coach or C+ on the CRJ segment.
However, one problem is that the ITH flights are normally operated with a CRJ-200 (about three times a day, so the connection times can be hard to get something reasonable) and delta.dumb tends to not offer G A P fares for the mainline connecting segments unless the flight you're trying to book is sold out in coach. It won't normally sell a FC through fare and just put you in coach or C+ on the CRJ segment.
Jan 30, 2019, 7:55 am
#19
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The "normal" routing here would be ITH-DTW-ATL-SDQ. If you want to visit a third hub, going ITH-DTW-MSP-ATL-SDQ or ITH-DTW-JFK-ATL-SDQ might not look unreasonable.
However, one problem is that the ITH flights are normally operated with a CRJ-200 (about three times a day, so the connection times can be hard to get something reasonable) and delta.dumb tends to not offer G A P fares for the mainline connecting segments unless the flight you're trying to book is sold out in coach. It won't normally sell a FC through fare and just put you in coach or C+ on the CRJ segment.
However, one problem is that the ITH flights are normally operated with a CRJ-200 (about three times a day, so the connection times can be hard to get something reasonable) and delta.dumb tends to not offer G A P fares for the mainline connecting segments unless the flight you're trying to book is sold out in coach. It won't normally sell a FC through fare and just put you in coach or C+ on the CRJ segment.
THANK YOU for providing a voice a reason here. Aside from ITH-DTW-ATL-SDQ, ITH-DTW-JFK-SDQ is also readily apparent. The folks who posted upstream may not like it, but even ITH-DTW-ATL-JFK-SDQ can work esp when the timings of the ITH-DTW and ATL/JFK dont quite align.
The CR2 is a whole 'nother issue. UGH. I'm sure I'll be shamed for expressing that opinion, too.
Jan 30, 2019, 8:32 am
#20
Join Date: Jan 2006
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I'm noticing a trend here..
Flying unnecessary segments, calling in an exorbitant amount of times and expecting a different answer even after call #8 lol Then reacting quite rudely when they weren't given answers on this that fit their motive.
Hmmm...
Jan 30, 2019, 8:33 am
#21
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Thanks for posting the 25 different "runs". Problem with being rebooked is, that agents usually think "timewise" instead of segment/MQM wise. It could indeed be the case that Amadeus does not favor the schedules that you have posted. I've been having the same issue when doing the OTP-PHX BA/OW runs, I can set up the schedule with 6 stops, however, when there is 1 delay or cancellation, I end up with max 2 layovers, due to the agents not being able to book more segments.
Jan 30, 2019, 8:43 am
#22
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Had a similar experience. I've turned BOS-LGA-SAV into BOS-JFK-DTW-ATL-SAV during one of the snowstorms. I simply gave the agent on the PM line the flight numbers. Her system wouldn't let her reissue. She placed me on hold while she contacted Global Ticketing Support (or maybe the reissues desk, not sure). Took about 45 minutes on hold, but they were able to force it through manually. Instead of an even exchange (L for L), ended up with "Y" fares on each segment. IROPS typically means a lot of the published fare rules get overlooked due to it being Service Recovery.
Jan 30, 2019, 9:34 am
#23
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OP, why not post the routing as opposed to this back and forth to "think harder" to figure out?
Jan 30, 2019, 10:34 am
#24
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In asking for help or an explanation it's best to be as specific as possible.
Award routings in the U.S., and between the U.S. and Canada, appear to be limited to 3 segments on a single fare component. (I have checked a few city pairs since the 11/2014 rule changes and am pretty comfortable stating it as a general rule.) Award routings U.S. - Mexico, and U.S. non-Canada international, appear to be generally limited to four segments, again on a single fare component. As for paid routings, check the rule for the fare you're willing to pay, for the specific airport pair, from the country in which you propose to buy the ticket. Yes, U.S. carrier fares can be that specific. Without that info people are just stuck guessing.
ITH-SDQ permits 4 segments on even cheap coach fares. ITA Matrix quickly found a DL VNNA0SBZ ITH to SDQ, ITH-DTW-DCA-JFK-SDQ. It is true some of the routing rules 'permit' service that isn't presently operated by Delta. I get the impression that routing rules are updated infrequently. There's probably lots of xxx-CVG-YYY or XXX-MEM-YYY that has been gone for years. Delta.com did not propose the ITH-DTW-DCA-JFK-SDQ routing - nor any other 4-segment routing among all offered - for the date checked.
I don't know that it's the intent of weather waivers to enable passengers to chase MQM. The carrier's obligation is to transport one from the origin to the destination, or, with two fare components, from origin-destination1, destination1-destination2, as used to be possible DTW-MDW-MSP to beat the high DTW-MSP fares.
Award routings in the U.S., and between the U.S. and Canada, appear to be limited to 3 segments on a single fare component. (I have checked a few city pairs since the 11/2014 rule changes and am pretty comfortable stating it as a general rule.) Award routings U.S. - Mexico, and U.S. non-Canada international, appear to be generally limited to four segments, again on a single fare component. As for paid routings, check the rule for the fare you're willing to pay, for the specific airport pair, from the country in which you propose to buy the ticket. Yes, U.S. carrier fares can be that specific. Without that info people are just stuck guessing.
ITH-SDQ permits 4 segments on even cheap coach fares. ITA Matrix quickly found a DL VNNA0SBZ ITH to SDQ, ITH-DTW-DCA-JFK-SDQ. It is true some of the routing rules 'permit' service that isn't presently operated by Delta. I get the impression that routing rules are updated infrequently. There's probably lots of xxx-CVG-YYY or XXX-MEM-YYY that has been gone for years. Delta.com did not propose the ITH-DTW-DCA-JFK-SDQ routing - nor any other 4-segment routing among all offered - for the date checked.
I don't know that it's the intent of weather waivers to enable passengers to chase MQM. The carrier's obligation is to transport one from the origin to the destination, or, with two fare components, from origin-destination1, destination1-destination2, as used to be possible DTW-MDW-MSP to beat the high DTW-MSP fares.
Jan 30, 2019, 10:52 am
#25
Join Date: Dec 2009
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OP, I am curious about how you booked on delta.com, was it directly through a search on delta.com or via another way? I've noticed something similar in the past. If I try using the delta.com search (dummy booking for March 19), I get only 7 options, all with only two connections, either DTW-JFK or DTW-ATL. However, if I try a ITA Matrix search, then use Bookwithmatrix.com (selecting Delta under the Book With dropdown), I can purchase through Delta.com a number of 3-connection routings, for instance DTW-ATL-JFK (but other combos available too) at the same low pricing as the 2-stop. I wonder if the agents search/booking capability is somehow similarly limited as the delta.com search functionality.
Jan 30, 2019, 10:56 am
#26
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And they called 11 times haha
I'm noticing a trend here..
Flying unnecessary segments, calling in an exorbitant amount of times and expecting a different answer even after call #8 lol Then reacting quite rudely when they weren't given answers on this that fit their motive.
Hmmm...
Jan 30, 2019, 11:25 am
#28
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In asking for help or an explanation it's best to be as specific as possible.
Award routings in the U.S., and between the U.S. and Canada, appear to be limited to 3 segments on a single fare component. (I have checked a few city pairs since the 11/2014 rule changes and am pretty comfortable stating it as a general rule.) Award routings U.S. - Mexico, and U.S. non-Canada international, appear to be generally limited to four segments, again on a single fare component. As for paid routings, check the rule for the fare you're willing to pay, for the specific airport pair, from the country in which you propose to buy the ticket. Yes, U.S. carrier fares can be that specific. Without that info people are just stuck guessing.
ITH-SDQ permits 4 segments on even cheap coach fares. ITA Matrix quickly found a DL VNNA0SBZ ITH to SDQ, ITH-DTW-DCA-JFK-SDQ. It is true some of the routing rules 'permit' service that isn't presently operated by Delta. I get the impression that routing rules are updated infrequently. There's probably lots of xxx-CVG-YYY or XXX-MEM-YYY that has been gone for years. Delta.com did not propose the ITH-DTW-DCA-JFK-SDQ routing - nor any other 4-segment routing among all offered - for the date checked.
I don't know that it's the intent of weather waivers to enable passengers to chase MQM. The carrier's obligation is to transport one from the origin to the destination, or, with two fare components, from origin-destination1, destination1-destination2, as used to be possible DTW-MDW-MSP to beat the high DTW-MSP fares.
Award routings in the U.S., and between the U.S. and Canada, appear to be limited to 3 segments on a single fare component. (I have checked a few city pairs since the 11/2014 rule changes and am pretty comfortable stating it as a general rule.) Award routings U.S. - Mexico, and U.S. non-Canada international, appear to be generally limited to four segments, again on a single fare component. As for paid routings, check the rule for the fare you're willing to pay, for the specific airport pair, from the country in which you propose to buy the ticket. Yes, U.S. carrier fares can be that specific. Without that info people are just stuck guessing.
ITH-SDQ permits 4 segments on even cheap coach fares. ITA Matrix quickly found a DL VNNA0SBZ ITH to SDQ, ITH-DTW-DCA-JFK-SDQ. It is true some of the routing rules 'permit' service that isn't presently operated by Delta. I get the impression that routing rules are updated infrequently. There's probably lots of xxx-CVG-YYY or XXX-MEM-YYY that has been gone for years. Delta.com did not propose the ITH-DTW-DCA-JFK-SDQ routing - nor any other 4-segment routing among all offered - for the date checked.
I don't know that it's the intent of weather waivers to enable passengers to chase MQM. The carrier's obligation is to transport one from the origin to the destination, or, with two fare components, from origin-destination1, destination1-destination2, as used to be possible DTW-MDW-MSP to beat the high DTW-MSP fares.
Somewhat OT, but AFAIK DL, including PMNW/PMDL, have never flown any ITH route other than to/from DTW. ITH service was added five or ten years ago with four CRJ-200 flights on most days to/from DTW and within the last couple years this has been reduced to three flights in each direction on most days. It's a small airport, although they built a new terminal at some point and now even have jetways.
Service originally was Mohawk, which became part of Allegheny and then USAir, now dba AA. I suspect that UA and other carriers never served ITH, although they might do Elmira, another small upstate NY airport, located about an hour's drive from Ithaca.
Service originally was Mohawk, which became part of Allegheny and then USAir, now dba AA. I suspect that UA and other carriers never served ITH, although they might do Elmira, another small upstate NY airport, located about an hour's drive from Ithaca.
Jan 30, 2019, 11:40 am
#29
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There are two United Express flights a day from ITH to IAD, operated by Commutair. There are also two flights from ELM to EWR, but in April those flights change to IAD.
Jan 30, 2019, 12:05 pm
#30
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Before: NYC-RDU/NYC/DTT/CVG/BOS/ATL-CHO
After: NYC-RDU/NYC/DTT/CVG/BOS-CHO
Only service into CHO is from LGA and ATL, so deleting ATL had the effect of requiring non-stop routing. But if Delta is going through the step of changing routing rules, I wonder why they leave RDU/DTT/CVG/BOS in there?