Why can't agents book/price 3-stop itineraries
Jan 30, 2019, 6:08 am
#1
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Why can't agents book/price 3-stop itineraries
Changing/modifying a flight, via SDC, IROP, or weather waiver is normally easy. But why does it become seemingly impossible to change a 4-segment itinerary? I'm a remote city, need to connect through twohubs, and end in another remote city.
their agents / compters seem incapabable of doing this.
their agents / compters seem incapabable of doing this.
Jan 30, 2019, 6:37 am
#2
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Most fares only a allow a single connection (or non-stop if there are a decent number of non-stop's on the route). Routing rules can be found on EF if you have an account there. Agents have more ability to violate routing rules with SDC/IRROP's. May be possible to do with a broken fare, but if it is a cheap fare, you will likely save by buying as separate tickets as you may have to upfare to a fare that permits end-on-end fare combinations if on a single ticket. May also require a stop of longer than 4 hours in order to fare out on a single ticket (again, the solution is to book the fares on separate tickets). Either way, it's going to cost more than a single through fare in most cases.
Last edited by xliioper; Jan 30, 2019 at 6:54 am
Jan 30, 2019, 6:41 am
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Changing/modifying a flight, via SDC, IROP, or weather waiver is normally easy. But why does it become seemingly impossible to change a 4-segment itinerary? I'm a remote city, need to connect through twohubs, and end in another remote city.
their agents / compters seem incapabable of doing this.
their agents / compters seem incapabable of doing this.
REMOTE <-> HUB <-> HUB <-> REMOTE?
That's only three segments. I see two stop domestic tickets all the time and they seem to price alright. I could see you trying to add three stops as being an invalid routing in pretty much any case (at least domestically). I can't think of a single city that would require three stops within the domestic US. It would essentially necessitate bouncing around hubs (e.g., REMOTE <-> SLC <-> ATL <-> DTW <-> REMOTE). Given that all hubs have high frequency connectivity to other hubs, this would never make sense.
Jan 30, 2019, 6:55 am
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This fare allowed three stops on most routings (maybe four, but not sure). Obscure city - Hub - Hub - Hub -Obscure city.
But put aside the nonsense that LBJ says. I booked a ticket with three stops - valid on the fare rules and bookable via dl.com. It involved cities affected by the numerous WX waivers this week, yet no agent (i called 11 times) could replicate my routing manually.
I finally gave up and rebooked it myself while on the phone with the agent, who gave me a TCV for the price difference.
LBJ - you are wrong. this was a single fare, not broken. No upfare, no EOE issues. Its a simple one way from one obscure city to another.
But put aside the nonsense that LBJ says. I booked a ticket with three stops - valid on the fare rules and bookable via dl.com. It involved cities affected by the numerous WX waivers this week, yet no agent (i called 11 times) could replicate my routing manually.
I finally gave up and rebooked it myself while on the phone with the agent, who gave me a TCV for the price difference.
LBJ - you are wrong. this was a single fare, not broken. No upfare, no EOE issues. Its a simple one way from one obscure city to another.
Jan 30, 2019, 6:56 am
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I can't think of a single city that would require three stops within the domestic US. It would essentially necessitate bouncing around hubs (e.g., REMOTE <-> SLC <-> ATL <-> DTW <-> REMOTE). Given that all hubs have high frequency connectivity to other hubs, this would never make sense.
Jan 30, 2019, 7:03 am
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This fare allowed three stops on most routings (maybe four, but not sure). Obscure city - Hub - Hub - Hub -Obscure city.
But put aside the nonsense that LBJ says. I booked a ticket with three stops - valid on the fare rules and bookable via dl.com. It involved cities affected by the numerous WX waivers this week, yet no agent (i called 11 times) could replicate my routing manually.
I finally gave up and rebooked it myself while on the phone with the agent, who gave me a TCV for the price difference.
LBJ - you are wrong. this was a single fare, not broken. No upfare, no EOE issues. Its a simple one way from one obscure city to another.
But put aside the nonsense that LBJ says. I booked a ticket with three stops - valid on the fare rules and bookable via dl.com. It involved cities affected by the numerous WX waivers this week, yet no agent (i called 11 times) could replicate my routing manually.
I finally gave up and rebooked it myself while on the phone with the agent, who gave me a TCV for the price difference.
LBJ - you are wrong. this was a single fare, not broken. No upfare, no EOE issues. Its a simple one way from one obscure city to another.
What "nonsense" am I saying? If you are looking at the "Transfers" boilerplate section in the fare rules, that's not the routing rules. The only public place I'm aware of on the internet where you can find the routing rules is EF. Also, just because a fare allows double-connect's doesn't mean there will bucket inventory in the married segments for a particular fare. If you are talking about an international fare, that's different and is generally covered by MPM rules. You could end this mystery by just naming the route.
Jan 30, 2019, 7:11 am
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,.....
Last edited by VXforever; Jan 30, 2019 at 7:02 pm
Jan 30, 2019, 7:14 am
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I'm thinking as hard as I can. Name one city pair in the US that requires three hub stops... there are none (assuming we're talking exclusively about Delta/Delta connection metal). The only exception here I can think of is some sort of connection using a local carrier (e.g., Hawaiian Air in Hawaii), but then you're no longer on Delta metal and you're dealing with partner routings which will of course have more pricing issues...
Jan 30, 2019, 7:21 am
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I'm thinking as hard as I can. Name one city pair in the US that requires three hub stops... there are none (assuming we're talking exclusively about Delta/Delta connection metal). The only exception here I can think of is some sort of connection using a local carrier (e.g., Hawaiian Air in Hawaii), but then you're no longer on Delta metal and you're dealing with partner routings which will of course have more pricing issues...
"requires" versus "allows" are very different concepts. When making changes especially under WX waivers, *allows* is what matters.
Nothing REQUIRES three hub stops.
But to remind you that it's possible, I did fly SLC-LAX-SFO-SEA-PDX last year. So, I'm done engaging with your hub stop max bs theory.
Last edited by VXforever; Jan 30, 2019 at 7:03 pm
Jan 30, 2019, 7:23 am
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Moderator: please close thread. Responses have been unintelligible, inaccurate, and doubting of real facts. The conversation is not productive and it'd be better had between a DL res manager and I.
Sadly, users here have been unable to contribute meaningfully.
Sadly, users here have been unable to contribute meaningfully.
Jan 30, 2019, 7:24 am
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Your initial post made it sound like this was not a weather waiver situation. Now you are seeming to indicate it is. Which is it? Was this a full F fare (or rather J fare) or a discount one? Discount fares have change fees and you will still be subject to married segment bucket availability (unless the city is covered by a weather waiver).
Jan 30, 2019, 7:26 am
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Changing/modifying a flight, via SDC, IROP, or weather waiver is normally easy. But why does it become seemingly impossible to change a 4-segment itinerary? I'm a remote city, need to connect through twohubs, and end in another remote city.
their agents / compters seem incapabable of doing this.
their agents / compters seem incapabable of doing this.
"requires" versus "allows" are very different concepts. When making changes especially under WX waivers, *allows* is what matters.
Nothing REQUIRES three hub stops.
But to remind you that it's possible, I did fly LAS-LAX-SEA-SLC-PDX last year. So, I'm done engaging with your hub stop max bs theory.
Nothing REQUIRES three hub stops.
But to remind you that it's possible, I did fly LAS-LAX-SEA-SLC-PDX last year. So, I'm done engaging with your hub stop max bs theory.
Jan 30, 2019, 7:30 am
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No. Im not stupid and know the transfers section isn't germane here. See below. Please correct me if the routing rules do not allow for three stops. (there was bucket inventory in all of them, and with a F fare, it shouldnt matter whether its Z or J.)
1. ITH-ATL-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/
WAS-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
2. ITH-ATL-DL-SDQ
3. ITH-ATL-DL-SXM-WM-SDQ
4. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-ATL-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/
MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/WAS-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/
MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
5. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-ATL-DL-SDQ
6. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-ATL-DL-SXM-WM-SDQ
7. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/
MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
8. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-ATL/BOS/CVG/DTT/MIA/MSP/NYC-MIA-
DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/WAS-ATL/
BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
9. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-ATL/BOS/CVG/DTT/MIA/MSP/NYC-MIA-
SDQ
10. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-ATL/BOS/CVG/DTT/MIA/MSP/NYC-SDQ
11. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-ATL/BOS/CVG/DTT/MIA/MSP/NYC-SJU-
DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/WAS-ATL/
BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
12. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-ATL/BOS/CVG/DTT/MIA/MSP/NYC-SJU-
SXM-WM-SDQ
13. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-ATL/BOS/CVG/DTT/MIA/MSP/NYC-SXM-
WM-SDQ
14. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-ATL/BOS/CVG/DTT/MSP/NYC-ATL/BOS/
CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
15. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-BOS-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/
MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/WAS-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/
MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
16. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-BOS/CVG/DTT/MSP/NYC-ATL/LAX-DL-SDQ
17. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-BOS/CVG/DTT/MSP/NYC-ATL/LAX-DL-
SXM-WM-SDQ
18. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-CVG-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/
MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/WAS-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/
MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
19. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-DTT-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/
MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/WAS-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/
MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
20. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-MIA-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/
MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/WAS-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/
MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
21. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-MSP-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/
MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/WAS-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/
MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
22. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-NYC-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/
MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/WAS-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/
MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
23. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/NYC-SDQ
24. ITH-CVG-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/
WAS-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
25. ITH-CVG/DTT/NYC-ATL/LAX-DL-SDQ
26. ITH-CVG/DTT/NYC-ATL/LAX-DL-SXM-WM-SDQ
27. ITH-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/WAS-
ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
28. ITH-DTT-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/
WAS-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
29. ITH-MEM-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/
WAS-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
30. ITH-NYC-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/
WAS-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
.
1. ITH-ATL-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/
WAS-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
2. ITH-ATL-DL-SDQ
3. ITH-ATL-DL-SXM-WM-SDQ
4. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-ATL-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/
MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/WAS-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/
MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
5. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-ATL-DL-SDQ
6. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-ATL-DL-SXM-WM-SDQ
7. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/
MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
8. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-ATL/BOS/CVG/DTT/MIA/MSP/NYC-MIA-
DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/WAS-ATL/
BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
9. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-ATL/BOS/CVG/DTT/MIA/MSP/NYC-MIA-
SDQ
10. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-ATL/BOS/CVG/DTT/MIA/MSP/NYC-SDQ
11. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-ATL/BOS/CVG/DTT/MIA/MSP/NYC-SJU-
DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/WAS-ATL/
BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
12. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-ATL/BOS/CVG/DTT/MIA/MSP/NYC-SJU-
SXM-WM-SDQ
13. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-ATL/BOS/CVG/DTT/MIA/MSP/NYC-SXM-
WM-SDQ
14. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-ATL/BOS/CVG/DTT/MSP/NYC-ATL/BOS/
CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
15. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-BOS-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/
MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/WAS-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/
MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
16. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-BOS/CVG/DTT/MSP/NYC-ATL/LAX-DL-SDQ
17. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-BOS/CVG/DTT/MSP/NYC-ATL/LAX-DL-
SXM-WM-SDQ
18. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-CVG-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/
MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/WAS-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/
MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
19. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-DTT-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/
MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/WAS-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/
MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
20. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-MIA-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/
MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/WAS-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/
MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
21. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-MSP-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/
MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/WAS-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/
MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
22. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/MEM/NYC-NYC-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/
MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/WAS-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/
MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
23. ITH-ATL/CVG/DTT/NYC-SDQ
24. ITH-CVG-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/
WAS-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
25. ITH-CVG/DTT/NYC-ATL/LAX-DL-SDQ
26. ITH-CVG/DTT/NYC-ATL/LAX-DL-SXM-WM-SDQ
27. ITH-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/WAS-
ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
28. ITH-DTT-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/
WAS-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
29. ITH-MEM-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/
WAS-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
30. ITH-NYC-DL-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/LAX/MEM/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC/
WAS-ATL/BOS/CHI/CVG/DTT/FLL/LAX/MIA/MSP/NYC/ORL/SLC-SDQ
.
This is a strange example because SDQ isn't domestic and the only DL flights from Ithaca go to DTW. There's no ITH-ATL service.
Jan 30, 2019, 7:32 am
#14
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My appologies if i come accross as rude, i'm just annoyed that i'm being challenged at every juncture here.
Jan 30, 2019, 7:34 am
#15
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"requires" versus "allows" are very different concepts. When making changes especially under WX waivers, *allows* is what matters.
Nothing REQUIRES three hub stops.
But to remind you that it's possible, I did fly LAS-LAX-SEA-SLC-PDX last year. So, I'm done engaging with your hub stop max bs theory.
Nothing REQUIRES three hub stops.
But to remind you that it's possible, I did fly LAS-LAX-SEA-SLC-PDX last year. So, I'm done engaging with your hub stop max bs theory.
I don't think anyone here understands what you're asking.
If you're asking an agent to do a change for IRROPS, then they are usually flexible, but they have no obligations to pick whatever arbitrary routing you want. If you can get to A to B within a reasonable timeframe then they have fulfilled their obligation. Given that connecting at a bunch of extra hubs actually takes longer, I'm not surprised they don't want to put you on that route. Delta does not owe you any specific routing. If you don't like how that impacts your MQMs, then ask for original routing credit. Jeez.