Delta (confirmed) adds 10 more A330-900NEO
Nov 14, 2018, 12:51 pm
#1
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Delta (confirmed) adds 10 more A330-900NEO
Delta adds 10 more A330-900NEO. It will total 35 A330-900NEOs.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...e=businessNews
Not sure when the schedule to be delivery.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...e=businessNews
Not sure when the schedule to be delivery.
Last edited by 3Cforme; Nov 16, 2018 at 9:13 am Reason: story confirmed
Nov 14, 2018, 1:50 pm
#2
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Are they planning some sort of Asia expansion? Where could they possibly be sending them?
So now 4/5 aircraft orders in the past decade have gone to Airbus. And people doubted me when I said the relationship between Boeing and Delta is damaged beyond repair. Delta's pride is so enormous it's just sad. They don't have appropriate aircraft for their network because that would mean admitting they were wrong to forego the 787. United is killing Delta in Asia.
So now 4/5 aircraft orders in the past decade have gone to Airbus. And people doubted me when I said the relationship between Boeing and Delta is damaged beyond repair. Delta's pride is so enormous it's just sad. They don't have appropriate aircraft for their network because that would mean admitting they were wrong to forego the 787. United is killing Delta in Asia.
Nov 14, 2018, 3:07 pm
#3
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Are they planning some sort of Asia expansion? Where could they possibly be sending them?
So now 4/5 aircraft orders in the past decade have gone to Airbus. And people doubted me when I said the relationship between Boeing and Delta is damaged beyond repair. Delta's pride is so enormous it's just sad. They don't have appropriate aircraft for their network because that would mean admitting they were wrong to forego the 787. United is killing Delta in Asia.
So now 4/5 aircraft orders in the past decade have gone to Airbus. And people doubted me when I said the relationship between Boeing and Delta is damaged beyond repair. Delta's pride is so enormous it's just sad. They don't have appropriate aircraft for their network because that would mean admitting they were wrong to forego the 787. United is killing Delta in Asia.
What makes the 787 so special versus the A350 or A330neo? Whatever competitive advantage a 787 has over the A330neo I am sure Airbus made up for in discounts. Delta loves to have a mix of fuel efficient planes and capital efficient planes so that they can ramp up and ramp down in response to demand (although the A330 isn't that bad from an efficiency perspective anyways).
Regarding Asia, United is killing Delta because (a) they have the right hub and slots to support it and (b) they're willing to jump into the blood bath that is US-Asia routes and fight for market share. Delta isn't. Two different approaches, neither is right or wrong. The 787 isn't the main causative factor there.
Nov 14, 2018, 3:53 pm
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Is anyone making money flying US to Asia right now? When one can get a a flight BOS to SIN leaving TOMORROW (11/15) for $1,037, and leaving Monday (11/19) for $793, I can't imagine a 787, A350, Soyuz Rocket, a hang glider, or any other machine capable of flight making the difference on profitability on TPAC routes right now.
And just to show that's not an outlier, I'm grabbing some random US cities and Asian cities leaving 11/19 and back 11/23
BDL/PVG - 1 stop - $602 on AC
PBI/BKK - 2 stops - $980 on UA/HK
MSY/MNL - 2 stops $1,208 on CX
MCI/KUL - 2 stops $1,124 DL/KE
LAX/DPS - 2 stops $456 MF
SFO/PEK - non stop - $514 UA
PDX/HAN - 2 stops $799 AA
I understand that this isn't the peak season to many of those destination and it's just one day, but it's pretty consistent that one can fly to much of Asia for not a lot.
Airlines may be able to make it up with ancillary fees or cargo, but to me at least I doubt the 787 is the key to TPAC success.
From the perspective of the DL/UA/AA, they need their JV's in Asia to work much more like their JV's in Europe. There is just too much TPAC capacity to have anyone make consistent money.
And just to show that's not an outlier, I'm grabbing some random US cities and Asian cities leaving 11/19 and back 11/23
BDL/PVG - 1 stop - $602 on AC
PBI/BKK - 2 stops - $980 on UA/HK
MSY/MNL - 2 stops $1,208 on CX
MCI/KUL - 2 stops $1,124 DL/KE
LAX/DPS - 2 stops $456 MF
SFO/PEK - non stop - $514 UA
PDX/HAN - 2 stops $799 AA
I understand that this isn't the peak season to many of those destination and it's just one day, but it's pretty consistent that one can fly to much of Asia for not a lot.
Airlines may be able to make it up with ancillary fees or cargo, but to me at least I doubt the 787 is the key to TPAC success.
From the perspective of the DL/UA/AA, they need their JV's in Asia to work much more like their JV's in Europe. There is just too much TPAC capacity to have anyone make consistent money.
Nov 14, 2018, 4:05 pm
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LOL - what? I have no bone to pick in Airbus vs. Boeing (except maybe for the fact I appreciate the extra inch of seatwidth I get in Y on Airbus products) but you're being a little ridiculous. A330neos will be perfectly fine on both US-Europe and West Coast to Asia routes if Delta wants to use them that way.
What makes the 787 so special versus the A350 or A330neo? Whatever competitive advantage a 787 has over the A330neo I am sure Airbus made up for in discounts. Delta loves to have a mix of fuel efficient planes and capital efficient planes so that they can ramp up and ramp down in response to demand (although the A330 isn't that bad from an efficiency perspective anyways).
Regarding Asia, United is killing Delta because (a) they have the right hub and slots to support it and (b) they're willing to jump into the blood bath that is US-Asia routes and fight for market share. Delta isn't. Two different approaches, neither is right or wrong. The 787 isn't the main causative factor there.
What makes the 787 so special versus the A350 or A330neo? Whatever competitive advantage a 787 has over the A330neo I am sure Airbus made up for in discounts. Delta loves to have a mix of fuel efficient planes and capital efficient planes so that they can ramp up and ramp down in response to demand (although the A330 isn't that bad from an efficiency perspective anyways).
Regarding Asia, United is killing Delta because (a) they have the right hub and slots to support it and (b) they're willing to jump into the blood bath that is US-Asia routes and fight for market share. Delta isn't. Two different approaches, neither is right or wrong. The 787 isn't the main causative factor there.
Nov 14, 2018, 5:10 pm
#7
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Delta can't even fly SLC-LHR year-round and when it does operate it is a 767. Same goes for SLC-AMS,CDG. If they can't use anything bigger than a 767 on hub-hub flights then routes like IND-CDG, TPA-AMS, ATL-STR, etc won't have a prayer of lasting on a gigantic A330. It's the same problem Pan Am had. They ordered a ton of 747's and couldn't fill them. Their competitors flying the DC-10 and L-1011 faired much better. A smaller aircraft will help you weather an economic downtown.
The hole in the middle of the market (the 767 zone) is well known and documented. There isn't a fix for that - either from Boeing or Airbus. As 767s fade away, routes will be run either slightly over capacity (via A330 or 787) or under capacity (using extended/long range narrowbodies). It is what it is.
Out of all airlines I would say Delta is the last airline that runs routes overcapacity. If a route has low yields, Delta cuts it quickly.
Nov 14, 2018, 5:13 pm
#8
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??? How would the 787 help? The A330neo and 787-9 have literally identical capacities (and no one is ordering the 788 because the economics of the 789 are just much better).
The hole in the middle of the market (the 767 zone) is well known and documented. There isn't a fix for that - either from Boeing or Airbus. As 767s fade away, routes will be run either slightly over capacity (via A330 or 787) or under capacity (using extended/long range narrowbodies). It is what it is.
The hole in the middle of the market (the 767 zone) is well known and documented. There isn't a fix for that - either from Boeing or Airbus. As 767s fade away, routes will be run either slightly over capacity (via A330 or 787) or under capacity (using extended/long range narrowbodies). It is what it is.
Nov 14, 2018, 5:20 pm
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Boeing is considering the 797. It does not have board approval yet. And, quite frankly, my hypothesis if it launches at all is that it will end up being a long range narrowbody that no one is going to like. That will have, far and away, the best economics relative to a narrow widebody.
Nov 14, 2018, 5:25 pm
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Boeing is considering the 797. It does not have board approval yet. And, quite frankly, my hypothesis if it launches at all is that it will end up being a long range narrowbody that no one is going to like. That will have, far and away, the best economics relative to a narrow widebody.
Nov 14, 2018, 5:29 pm
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Regarding the A380, it was a failure, no doubt about it. It was a plane built for a future that never took shape: slot restrictions were alleviated by secondary airports that shifted away volume, four engined planes were completely superseded by twin engine due to the economics of it, and point to point has become an increasing focus even in international routes.
Airbus is still trying to keep it alive in hopes of the slot restriction issue resurfacing enough to make it work on some routes, but I don't see it happening.
Nov 14, 2018, 5:31 pm
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Isn't the 797 still in a conceptual phase? I don't think we have any idea what Boeing is planning since I don't think they even know what they are thinking about yet. Hopefully, it's similar to the 767 (still my favorite Boeing type). But, knowing them, it'll become another vessel that airlines can just pack 'em and stack 'em. .
Nov 14, 2018, 5:36 pm
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I think DL is committed to suites on all their international wide-bodies, so I don't see why these would be any different. Though, I did find the J seats in the current A330 quite nice. I don't think the really need to replace that product.
Nov 14, 2018, 5:41 pm
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How many years out are 797 deliveries. I cannot see the 767 hanging on that long. I will never do a long haul flight in a narrow body. I have too much self respect to ever do that.
Nov 14, 2018, 5:42 pm
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Isn't the 797 still in a conceptual phase? I don't think we have any idea what Boeing is planning since I don't think they even know what they are thinking about yet. Hopefully, it's similar to the 767 (still my favorite Boeing type). But, knowing them, it'll become another vessel that airlines can just pack 'em and stack 'em. .