RumPatrol

I really do wish China Airlines was higher in the food chain. I've had almost all negative experiences on MU and I don't even hate PVG as much as most, though I'd always avoid it if possible. From an earning and value perspective though, it is tough to beat MU.

Bowgie

I'm sure the quote is made in jest, but it points to a solution: Use those Delta miles to redeem at the same 160k "low" level for a flight on Delta. They fly USA to Beijing, Shanghai, and Hong Kong (until this fall).

Two mistakes by OP
1. Credit card mileage transfers are never reversible/refundable. Blame Amex.
2. Partner award are like speculative offers. They usually go thru, but can be rejected by Delta's partner airline. Blame China Southern.

Neither problem is fixable by Delta.

By the way, wife and I have not found the regular Amex Plat card to be all that attractive. A combination of the Delta-affiliated Amex Plat for me and the Chase Sapphire Reserve for spouse seems to give us better value. Chase Sapphire Reserve alone beats Amex regular plat card in my opinion. We like transfers to United MileagePlus without having to actually fly-to-earn the miles.

xolinlevh

I mean that they claim to be a frequent flyer yet somehow was shocked that delta wouldn't let them hold a flight (delta never lets you hold flights, you can book and cancel in 24 hours but that obviously requires miles) and that they were stunned that given they dont refund miles back into amex. Dont get me wrong, id be pissed too if i moved points and then tried to book, only to find out that it was bad inventory due to China Southern, but flipping out and claiming Delta is scamming customers and wont refund Amex points is total ignorance.

If the OP really had a 'long history' with Amex, they would know that no one ever refunds converted MR points back. I've had my amex for ~15 years, and whenever you transfer points you agree to the T&Cs:
"2. American Express is not responsible for availability of flight, accommodations, or any other rewards in the Delta SkyMiles® program.
4. Once you have transferred Membership Rewards® points, they cannot be transferred back to your Membership Rewards account and become subject to the Terms and Conditions of the Delta SkyMiles® program, found at http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_...onditions.html.
7. Please note that no booking can be made until the miles are credited to your Delta SkyMiles® account."

So the OP agreed to all of this....so again, while the bad inventory IS a problem, being mad that he needed the miles to book a flight in the first place, and being mad that the points dont transfer back...is just ignorance.

azepine00

Delta is scamming customers but apparently it conditioned everyone that this is a normal practice.

If they know of existing issues with partner availability it is very easy for them to allow holds until space is confirmed but they choose not to do that.

SamOF

This seems right to me. The fact that availability could dry up or change during a points transfer is the kind of risk you take in this situation. But a widespread fake availability issue should be enough to reverse the points transfer (at least as a customer service gesture)--the customer made the transfer relying on an advertisement of award space that never existed in the first place.

xolinlevh

MCHF

I agree this is an intentional scam. If I'd known of their fake availability I'd never transferred my points to Delta

Delta is absolutely doing this intentionally as they check the actually availability during checkout/payment, in my case I found out during checkout that over a dozen flights didn't actually exist.

When? AC is still in Star Alliance and AC flights are all over United.com. I have never had this problem with United

conde

Phantom partner award availability has been reported for years for several airlines, including ones from OneWorld and Star Alliance. This issue isn't specific to Delta. As such, it is a stretch to claim that all airlines displaying phantom award space are "scamming" customers. Delta has its faults, and may be slighting customers in other ways (no published award chart, for example), but I would leave Delta alone on this one.

OhDoctor

The OP should consider himself lucky. DL is one of the few airlines that offers a "pay with miles" option (assuming you have one of their Amex cards; quite easy to obtain, if not) to redeem miles at 1 cent/point. This ensures that, even if award availability disappears, none of the miles will be wasted -- which is a likely outcome on any other carrier you'd transfer miles to but wouldn't be flying regularly. And as pointed out above, SkyPesos never expire.

Transferring Amex points is a gamble. Everyone knows that going in. Sloppy award availability errors are not a "scam", especially from an expectedly unreliable source (CZ).

Often1

Nope. DL ought to eliminate holds on partner awards altogether. Go back to the standard IATA practice. The passenger books the ticket (cash or award) and the other carriers have up to 3 business days to confirm positive space. If the space is not confirmed after 72 hours, the ticket is cancelled. If the space is confirmed, DL has 24 hours to issue an e-ticket. Put all of this in the fare rules and other disclosures and that's it.

RumPatrol

Allowing a customer to hold an award flight without actually having the miles to book it, as was the case here, is an absurd idea. Most partner award flights already have limited availability, letting people hold them without actually having the miles in their account is a disservice to those of us who do. If you actually have the miles, you still have the 24 hour risk-free cancellation policy available.

Delta cannot control what partner airlines are reporting and I don't know how Delta could even enforce it if they tried. It sucks, but the alternative is no partner award flights at all. I feel for the OP because I've dealt with trying to book mainland airlines on DL quite a few times and it is a nightmare, but it really isn't DL's fault and they certainly aren't scamming anyone.

flyerCO

UA is doing them again. However, CA, as opposed to AC which is Air Canada, has a long history of issues with awards. Including showing up DoD to find the reserved flight randomingly no longer reserved. Do a search and you'll see.

Delta is NOT doing this intentionally. CZ is the one who is. They're publishing confirmable inventory and then cancelling.

MCHF

Don't know what you mean

The fact that Delta's website checks the actual availability during payment is absolute proof that they could be doing more and the fact that they're not doing more makes it an intentional scam.

I quickly looked through the United forum and didn't see any recent topics about this.

RealHJ

The SkyMiles will only expire, at least until the rules are next "enhanced" by DL, when the owner expires (that is, dies).

So, the SkyMiles are here for the OP to keep and choose not to use until death. Or (s)he can book some non-DL flights using the miles, which would be a much smarter thing and at least not just having made a non-charitable donation to DL.

RealHJ

Hmm, not quite. I think it's somewhere in the middle. DL knows it is fake, as it'll say so when you actually try to book. DL could be doing more here, but yes, CZ is the origin of the issue here (same for MU (sometimes) and SU (practically always) also). Really the problem is that SkyTeam seems to have no effective or enforced standards and protocols on airlines interfacing with each other. The problem is CZ/MU/SU interface to DL and the real-time inventory not being real-time, that DL can confirm, but not at the correct step.

UA resolved their issues with CA after I escalated it to their exec management in a few months. LH also trained its phone res agents on how to book CA flights properly after I escalated it to the HQ in Germany ("neutral availability" - using a different search and not the normal award booking procedures, in that case). If DL chose to do so, it certainly could also resolve this issue, by changing how it interfaces with the troublesome airlines, or by exerting pressure on them directly and/or via SkyTeam, but DL is clearly choosing to ignore this. So yes, DL is not doing this intentionally, I am quite sure. But, DL is choosing to turn a blind eye to this.