shipitfish

In July 2016, I'm a flying in a T fare class PDX->AMS->CPT on DL 178 and on DL 9599 (which is Delta-marketed KLM 597). My plan is to apply a GUC, but of course it is waitlisted.

The GUC rules starting on 2016-06-01:
My concern is that the GUC will activate for PDX->AMS and then I will not receive the upgraded for AMS->CPT. My current plan is to only apply the GUC if there are at least 3-4 business/first seats available on the KLM AMS->CPT flight a few days before.

Still, this rule about no wait list and stopping at a Crown Lounge concerns me. My layover at AMS is just 1h30m, and having often done that layover lately connecting within Europe, that's barely enough time make the connection, let alone stop at a Crown Lounge and discuss the upgrade with an agent. (In my experience, the KLM GAs at AMS know nothing about upgrades or what to do.)

I've meanwhile talked to the Diamond desk about this. They seemed sure that the KLM GAs should know what to do. But, given the text quoted above, it's reasonably clear in the rules that if you can't confirm the upgrade 24 hours before departure, you won't get it. But, then why does it talk about "prior to check-in" in the context of talking to a ticketing agent or at a Crown Lounge? Why would you be talking to a ticket agent or at a Crown Lounge unless there was an Airport Standby list?

Does anyone have a recommendation on what to do here? I feel pretty confident on the return, which is CPT->AMS->MSP->PDX, because I have a much longer layover and plan to call the Diamond desk from AMS if I fail to get upgraded on the CPT->AMS leg.

Grouchy

Sometimes yes ...but wouldn't count on it + the Diamond desk is contradicting itself here:
For flights departing Amsterdam, Global Upgrade Certificates may be applied prior to check-in either with a KLM ticketing agent or at a KLM Crown Lounge

KLM's DoD upgrade program that's why Different airlines/airports; different rules.

Monitor the flight with expertflyer and if not already cleared head to the KL lounge asap if there is still availability.
3-4 seats can be quickly dissapear, however at around T-24 watch KLM to throw every KLM/Delta seat left open for upgrades/buy-up. Sadly for you around that time the DM desk can't help you anmyore and you only will arrive at AMS after most ex-AMS (FB) and early connection pax already checked in and made their way to the lounge or upgraded themselves in advance.
Still with 1h30 you should have plenty of time to go to the KL lounge.

mnbp

For flights departing AMS, there is a KLM day-of-departure "confirmed upgrades for sale" program, not a standby program. And, for AMS departures, DL agents can't help you same day, because all DL tickets are under AMS airport control and DL can't do anything. The guidance to refer to KLM transfer desk or KLM Crown Room agents at AMS is correct.

"Airport Standby List" is a function of DL systems managing DL flights. DL systems manage most DL flights, with the notable exceptions of DL flights departing AMS, CDG and BOM, where DL flights are managed on day of departure by KL/AF systems.

CaliguyNYC

So be careful, the agents say the KLM flight with a delta code is waitlisted. In reality it will never clear. You need DL opperated flights to be DL codes and KLM opperated flights to be KLM coded to get the upgrade. You can check availability for KLM flights on expert flyer. The DM line can change the DL flight to KLM. If you have problems tell thrm to transfer you to the international reissue agent. Basically its become hard for the DM line to sell through mixed routing of DL and KLM coded flights

baccarat_king

One might also consider the SkyPriority line at a transfer desk (especially if they are not crowded). Though, I basically agree with everything you said Grouchy.

Unfortunately with the unlikely case that AMS-CPT will clear automatically in advance many who arrive 1.5++ hours in advance (from connections or ex-AMS) could potentially process a Day of Departure upgrade.

It's a bit of a broken system, which has gotten better (IMHO) for Delta metal ex-AMS. But, for KLM metal, unless the GUC has cleared in advance (>24 hours, or prior to KLM AMS airport control) I have absolutely no confidence in the integrity of the upgrade list (or even being listed for the upgrade). Of course, YMMV, but important to set expectations. Now, the positive angle is that if there are seats available when you get to the lounge (transfer desk) they will most likely just clear it for you.

shipitfish

Ah! I didn't know much about KLM's program, but now I read the KLM DoD upgrade rules. Thus, it appears my upgrade will be competing with any Flying Blue member on the flight with a K-or-better fare and 45,500 miles to spare. While I wonder how many people that will "really be" on this particular flight on this particular day. Nevertheless, I will take your advice:

Thank you, Grouchy and others who suggested the same.

I think that isn't correct because of what it says in the DL Upgrade Certificate Rules:
So I think CaliguyNYC's advice would be correct if I were in a Y/B/M class, but I'm not.

Thanks, have you been cleared in this situation before? I don't see AMS->CPT mentioned at all official GUC upgrade thread How often does this work for you in this situation (coming of the USA red-eye and going to the KLM Lounge to get the upgrade)?

Meanwhile, the rest of this has been moved to the proper thread, but here's a summary of what Grouchy and I discussed on another side-point:

That lead me to a question that I've moved to another thread:
And you responded there:
So, since I don't need to go to passport control when changing from my PDX->AMS to my AMS->CPT leg, I agree 1h30m is plenty of time! (I've never done pure non-Schengen transfer at AMS before; I'm always crossing between Schengen and non-Schengen, for which 1h30m is barely enough lately.)

CaliguyNYC

I stand corrected - i just read th oink that was ported for the rukes. i got my flights uograded two days after the ruke changed. Maybe the agent didnt know the rules exactly. The agent also said she saw different availability when she searched for upgrades for KLM coded vs delta coded klm opperated flights. Who knows. Any way I git uograded on a mix of delta and klm v class flights so am not complaining!

Grouchy

You will not only competing with any FB member but also with other Delta SM members and even regular non-status pax. KLM might already start with offering (silent) upgrade offers during OLCI to anyone. Ex-AMS anyone can walk up to their ticket desk landside and buy up with EUR if they don't have miles.

All KLM operated flights are eglible for buy-up/upgrade with EUR/miles/GUC's on the DoD (ex-AMS, ex-ICN, ex-HKG, ex-PEK etc etc). baccarat_king and me might be in a somwhat different situation as most of our flights originate/end @AMS. We might arrive somewhat earlier if we see availability through Expertflyer
However if you arrive early enough and there is availability for the AMS-CPT and CPT-AMS flights, rest assured KLM will upgrade you.

shipitfish

Is there a price table for that? I'm vaguely curious how expensive it is for regular pax / low DL status folks to do that.

I did sign up for expertflyer (which I'm going to cancel as soon as this trip is over since they can't offer DL data anymore). I think I've decided that if there are at least 3-5 seats left as of T-24 of my PDX->AMS leg, I'm going to apply the GUC and hope.

It's a shame to burn a GUC for just the PDX->AMS leg, but the upside if they sell out is I can sleep comfortably on that flight, the coach trip AMS->CPT won't be so bad.

So, on the return it sounds like it's worth a very early arrival to CPT on my return to visit the KL Crown Lounge to get that upgrade processed?

baccarat_king

Yes, there is a FlyerTalk thread I started in 2013 (focusing on AMS-BOS-AMS), and I did a blog post about it.... about a year +1 ago.

LINK

note : above link is to my website

tbaiyun

AF/KL eventually sell upgrades to anyone. E+/E members get the offer around 3 to 5 days in advanced, then other pax get them when they CI or OLCI or even machine CI...

They usually offer at around 329EUR to 500EUR, that's still a nice price for a long-haul like AMS-CPT with new WBC...

And the way they clear upgrade is so weird, that sometimes even an award ticket from a FB platinum to his wife/daughter travelling alone can get upgraded prior than a Gold with a revenue ticket...

shipitfish

Just an update on this discussion, at T-88 before the AMS-CPT flight where I want the GUC upgrade to clear, I phoned KLM Ticketing directly. KLM ticketing was able to waitlist me for the upgrade, so I currently see in my DL record under "My Trips" the 'double entry' one sometimes gets when waitlisted for an upgrade: I see my usual EC+ seat and then it looks if I'm booked again on the same flight with a Select Seat for the Business seat in Z class (although I can't actually select a seat). Interesting and possibly important fact on this: the EC+ seat is listed under the DL codeshare flight number, but the upgrade waitlist entry is on the KLM flight number directly. This hopefully addresses the point that mnpb made above.

This, I would hope, will give me a leg-up during my layover. I guess I won't actually clear the list until I show up at the Crown Club during lay-over and ask to be cleared, but my hope is they won't sell the seat as a DoD upgrade to another pax while I'm in the air on my first leg (PDX-AMS). OTOH, baccarat_king's point may still apply, and despite my being waitlisted, as he points out, KLM might not honor the integrity of that waitlist during DoD upgrade purchases.


Unrelated, but for those interested, my GUC cleared for that first PDX-AMS leg, and also cleared weeks ago on the return trip from CPT-AMS (which is also KLM metal). I'm thus only waitlisted for the rest of my return trip (AMS-MSP-PDX) and for the key leg in question that departs AMS.

I'll post here and on the GUC success thread after the trip! I'm hoping it's ultimately success all the way through!

flyerCO

Hope it all works out, but I'd be concerned having two differ t flights listed at same time. While operated by the same aircraft, a DL flight number and a KLM flight number are functionally wholly different flights.

Let us know if it actually works in the end.

shipitfish

Wow, so a few things have happened. I started writing this while siting in the KLM Crown lounge, with the upgrade agent, and they were unable to process this upgrade because Delta has already closed the GUC from my first PDX->AMS leg!!!

Of course, the GUC is supposed to work in the whole direction, but there was no redemption code active anymore on it, and the KLM agent is unable to apply it to this flight.

I think this had nothing to do with the "waitlist" booking for the KLM flight, AFAICT, that disappeared as soon I checked in for PDX-AMS (which I think was a bad ticketing agent mistake at PDX).

The Crown Lounge agent was so patient and nice. She told me to call the Diamond Desk as I have more access to sort this out with Delta than she did with her contacts at Delta. I got a Diamond agent who really did try her best (putting me on hold multiple times over about 45 minutes, all while the KLM agent told me to sit and keep trying). The Diamond agent agreed with me that the redemption should be possible with one GUC for the whole PDX-AMS-CPT travel, but she had no way to reopen it on short notice.

In the end, the flight boarding opened, and I still had a coach seat, so I burned another GUC to get the KLM upgrade. The Diamond Desk rep told me she'd note in the account this was the wrong outcome and that if I called back after my trip, they would reinstate the lost GUC. I will not have time to do that until I return to the USA next week.

shipitfish

I had to do the exact same thing when I arrived at AMS on my return trip of CPT-AMS-MSP-PDX. The KLM agent was quite confused about how to continue my GUC, which had already been closed for my CPT-AMS leg, for the AMS-MSP leg and the overnight (USA time) staff at the Diamond line was similarly baffled as to why the KLM agent was unable to apply it properly to, this time, a flight on Delta metal leaving AMS.

I'm quite convinced that KLM and Delta have not really worked out the procedures of how GUCs work across both airlines. I'll update this thread if I learn more, I will also post a summary when I've finished investigating over on the GUC Success thread.