jdrtravel

Yes, you've made this incorrect point before.

I mean, I don't eat beef, but I know that there is a difference between the cheap ground beef in a fast food burger that you can buy on a dollar menu and a steak or roast served in Delta One. There is a difference between the iceberg lettuce salad with a packet of ranch dressing at Mc Donald's and the locally sourced gem lettuce & root vegetables salad out of JFK served with green goddess dressing. There is a difference between crappy McDonald's soft serve and honeysuckle gelato on Delta One.
Delta One now, from several locations, offers truly healthy and locally soured meals with fresh ingredients that includes lots of vegetables and meats that are roasted or baked and not fried. Are you seriously comparing that to chicken nuggets and milk shakes? It's truly bizarre. I know that there are some really bad meals, especially in domestic first class, and that sometimes the prep really ruins things. But the basic ingredients being served in Delta One cabins are of a far higher quality than what you are picking up at your local drive through.

gooselee

That admittedly is my writing being unclear. I didn't mean to compare the food quality of an in flight J/F meal to that of Applebee's/Olive Garden/whatever. I meant to compare the purpose of such a meal.

I wouldn't go out of my way to seek an Olive Garden for an exquisite, gourmet meal. But if I'm on a 10 hour road trip and I need to eat and it's the only restaurant within 50 miles of me, I guess I'll stop in and eat whatever they have. Perhaps if there's a much better restaurant within a 5-10 minute detour, I'd go out of my way to go there instead.

Similarly, I wouldn't get on a flight for the *sole purpose* of the in flight meal. However if it's the best/only flight that matches my desired route/timing and they serve a meal, I'll sit there and eat it. Or I won't, and I'll survive. Perhaps if there's another flight within a reasonable price/time/route difference (and for me, this would have to be a VERY small difference) that I know has a MUCH better in flight food, I might inconvenience myself to take that flight.

Re: RealHJ's comment - I never said people do not travel for food. I've certainly gone far and wide to get some good food. But in that case, the food itself is my destination - the places I stop for meals and gas along the way are much more utilitarian than my destination. They may be good, but they aren't my goal. And to each their own, but I think I'd personally max out at maybe a $10 or 10 minute premium if the only difference is the inflight meal. It's so low on the list of flight selection factors, I don't know that I've ever even thought about it when booking. I've even (gasp) declined perfectly good in flight meals/courses because I'm just not hungry or I ate before the flight or I'm asleep.

cerealmarketer

You've got it - back to 2009 slop - and my decision point for paying for first is now higher as a result. I value the time saved trying to sit for a decent meal on the ground before a flight vs something edible in the air included in the fare around $50 or so. I don't buy high yield first class fares on my dime, I buy the Zs and As, or upgrade if that equation works, so if they don't want that business no feelings hurt. But the wide availability of these Zs and As tells me they are incremental dollars they're still counting on.

Unfortunate it feels like they're trying to whittle down the domestic Delta One product as well.


That's what the deal has been on the JFK-LAX/SFO flights. Much better food / wine than what AA and UA offered for a similar price, with the same nonstop, and similar times.

Now signs it's being cut back takes away a reason to prefer Delta on the route. Most people aren't choosing solely on that, but it's part of the package that goes into a decision on a route where there are four / five competitors with similar convenience and price. Which is a lot different than most of the shorter haul domestic flights that don't have so much competitive choice.

MSPeconomist

Regardless of which airline has passengers (overall or just in premium cabins???) with higher personal incomes or higher personal net worths, such customers don't necessarily spend more on plane tickets and even if they spend more on plane tickets, this doesn't necessarily mean that they are the most profitable customers.

cerealmarketer

I don't think the "high class clientel" as the OP so eloquently put it has much to do with their profitability to the airline either.

We know those money center cities NY, LA are less profitable on a margin basis given their level of competition than lower local market competition, lower cost hubs like CLT, ATL, MSP.

But if you're trying to hand wave a market share of 'people who look like they might have higher net worth'...then I'd generally say AA has a bit higher share.

RealHJ

Food probably makes more of a difference on more competitive routes with more choices. Certainly sometimes, at least for some, it can be a deciding factor. I often have a choice between DL, JL, HA, OZ, KE, CI, MU, UA and CA, as well as LCCs like Air Asia and Scoot, when flying out of HNL. I will consider the in-flight food in the decision. JL: will be left hungry (good quality, but minuscule quantity). DL: in for a surprise - good or bad, don't know. CA: good quantity, quality, top notch service (but horrible ground service at PEK). CI: sort of like DL - can be good or bad. MU: adequate. HA: a bit above adequate. UA: pretty decent. And so on... If there is a choice of only one or two airlines, food won't play a role. But for those of us who live in well connected locations with plenty of airline choices, especially with multiple viable routes to the destination, it can be a very real factor in the decision. It has been for me, at least. (JL has solid service, but I don't like to go hungry on flights. And recently mid-flight food choices have been way scaled down.. so I'm flying JL less now.)

I am also all for declining meals and getting more time to sleep, but not really possible usually. I just wish that it was legal to actually use DL's noise and light blocking pilot rest curtains on seat 2A, to cut out all the noise and light during the in-flight meal service.

gooselee

That's fair enough - if the timing/price between all 9-10 of those airlines is functionally equivalent, I could certainly see in-flight food becoming a factor. Cabin service/temperature is also important to some people and they might select on that. No denying that.

However, I think we do agree that the in-flight food is merely a *factor* in selecting an airline that comes into play *only after* the decision to fly at all has been made? In other words, as much as you like CA's in-flight food, you would not book a flight with them unless you first and foremost had a reason to travel to/through China (or some other destination they serve), right? That's the distinction I was attempting to make - in general, people may choose one airline over another because of in-flight food, but they do not choose to fly somewhere at all just to get the in-flight food.

jdrtravel

While I might not book an airline for the food, I will book an airline (or avoid an airline) because of my overall impression of their service. This overall impression is informed by many factors, and food is one of them. For example, I won't fly UA unless I have to, and that is based on my overall impression of their customer service, which is a result of many factors.

RealHJ

That is true, yes. But if I was so flush with cash and with nothing to do and if some airline served truly amazing food, I can certainly see how I may fly just for the food. I do enjoy flying just for the sake of it - no phone ringing, more time to relax and recharge. I mean theoretically it's possible to fly based on just on food...but I think rather unlikely. I mean the crowd who'd do that probably fly private anyway, so it's like a 0.01% of travelers who may possibly do that.

And you are so right about cabin temperature! KE is as hot as an oven = avoid, as can't sleep or rest when it's that hot. OZ is also warm and smells like a department store ground floor (the sickly perfume they spray in the air) = avoid.

jdrtravel

I love Starwood properties but this is my biggest complain about then, especially W and Westin, such a strong smell and I'm allergic to it. I have to call ahead and ask for them to not spray my room, which they usually do anyways.

gooselee

May you and I both one day be rich and bored enough to fly just for the food.

roberto.triviani

Sadly that's the case. One FA in the kitchen, one per aisle. Economy FAs come and help towards the end of service (dessert).
I was not impressed with 767 D1 service. Flight attendants forget what wine you have, they sometimes skip you for dessert (or end of flight snack), and don't answer the call button.

Also, the issue isn't that 20 people got upgraded. You would have the same experience even if the cabin was full with paid customers.
They just don't have enough staff to have a good service and the staff that they have is a hit or miss from my experience.

AANYC1981

Yes the “load factor FA position” on these flights is gone too reducing the FA to customer ratio which is yet another cost cutting “enhancement “