ethernal

Sorry to keep spamming this thread - but the other thing that blows my mind is that the planes Delta tends to use for longer - by domestic standards - hauls (739, A321, and some 757s) have the lowest C+ and premium seat ratio while short haul planes have the highest. I literally don't understand Delta's fleet strategy as it is the opposite of what I would expect. I know some of this has to do with when cabin refreshes, etc take place - but still, it is literally the exact opposite one would expect.





* Generous C+ is mostly due to union rules - but still
** Took the 752 with more C+ seats that most are getting reconfiged to (but fewer and much worse F)
*** Picked the cabin they are standardizing to on refreshes

Can anyone explain this fleet strategy to me?

SJC ORD LDR

When DL announced they were adding C+, AA didn't have it and UA was going through the merger and it wasn't a sure bet that CO management wanted to keep it. Also, since they introduced C+, they have added seats to the 737-800, MD88 MD90, 717, E175 and CR7. The A321 has 29 seats, not 18 and the E175s have 20 on CP and OO at least.

Also, it's not like we can tell any airline how to configure their planes; we can buy and not buy based on their configurations (i.e. I refuse to fly on a 10 across Y 777).

ethernal

Fixed - sorry about that. Blame SeatGuru on the E175 - blame me for the A321. E175 is generous only because of union rules (76 seat cap.. might as well use the space).

This is true, except the legacy airlines that did not have a Y+ product had much more generous coach seating (always at least 32", sometimes 33"). Now the market is "Y+" at 34-35" and "Y" at 30-31". There were some exceptions here, but that was the rule. For the most part, airlines made room for Y+ by shrinking Y seat pitch. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I can't think of any planes where airlines netted down more than 1 row to make their Y+ cabins. Delta wants the best of both worlds by shrinking Y seat pitch and also not having a lot of Y+...

As a prototypical example - when AA redid their 757s with MCE, they took out 2 first class seats, shrunk their Y pitch from 32-33" to 31", and only lost a total of 2 seats.

Agreed - I'm just shocked/confused is all.. and surprised I don't hear more people complain about it.

dalehill

🤣 Or maybe you're just not getting with the destination time zone?

ATLflyer2017

If I recall correctly, I don't think AA MCE even means extra legroom or free booze. Its just more favorable location in the cabin and maybe some exit rows. An exit row on Delta doesn't necessarily mean its Comfort+.

Bretmd

rucksack

Extra legroom is about all MCE passengers get. In fact, AA dubs some of their exit row seats in the middle of the plane as "Main Cabin Extra." You're right that they don't get free booze, though.

silverthief2

As long as I won't be driving upon arrival, I do. And many of my flights are short enough that one drink is all I'm having anyway.

RaflW

You'll find plenty of FTers who will agree that DL's 739s are the worst. Just awful. And two of the 8 exit seats are, IMO seriously uncomfortable as they are maybe 16" wide and have no window-side armrest.

DL has increased the C+ section to 36 C+ on the 738. A year or two ago they increased the MD90/MD88s to 25 from 15, so their market data must be supporting modest increases. I just assume that in the case of the 739, they've shoehorned in the max number of seats, and would have to sacrifice a row of Y- to get a larger C+ section (which I'd be all for). The 739 should have a ratio closer to 20-25% IMO.

12.5% 320K (worst)
12.75% 320M
13.12% 739
15% A319
15.2% 753
16% 737-7
16.2% 752H
17.6% MD90
16.85% A321
18.8% MD88
20.4% 717
25% 738 (best mainline)
26.6% CR7 (except one variant)
31.25% CR9, E175 (best overall ratio)

Dishonorable mention:
0.0% CR2 (no, the front row isn't really C+, even if the map says it is)

At some point maybe I'll refigure the above adding in exit row seats to be a better apples:apples with UA. But gotta dash for now.

ND76

I flew on a 737-900 yesterday LAS-SLC. I had an FCM seat. The flight was sold out, and it had that cattle car feeling, even in row 1. My onward flight was on a reconfigured 757, and that felt spacious compared to the 737-900.

xliioper

In the end, if all one cares about is the extra legroom, it seems rather silly to book away from DL when you could just select an Exit Row seat on DL and basically get the same MCE product you would have gotten on AA (or UA). From my experiences, the exit row seats actually have more legroom than C+.

wlau

I am DM and I only fly DL because it's very punctual. The upgrade is just a giant mess. OP is right, the higher the status you achieve, the worse seat you get. Either stupid middle seat no one wants, or back of the plane. I lost count of times I get "upgraded" to C+ middle, then by the time I call in to pull myself back out, my original decent seat was gone, so it was either C+ middle or back of the plane... I am not sure if I am in the minority - but they need to add another upgrade opt-in option for middle seat, so we can opt in for window and aisle but opt out on middle.

If you are steamed about this, wait until you see TPAC flights where they shove all the elites to the front middle C+ seat and random passenger that booked on Delta on super cheap fare get to have empty seat next to him/her or an entire empty row to him/herself.

Delta's seat strategy for non-frequent flyer is best served when you buy the cheapest ticket and don't select seats and wait at the gate for seat. By then, all the elites are pushed to the front or C+ and you get to take their original Preferred seats. I've lost my row 44 seat on 777 countless times that way.

wlau

I think I was on the same flight as you.... Because of CES, there were a ton of DMs on that flight. Most everyone in C+ was DM and I saw more DMs in the back. The new 739 are very tight. the only good thing is the tray table has a very well design joint so it's very stable. I was working on my presentation for this week and was able to type comfortably without the tray table bouncing too much. It was large enough that i was able to fit a drink next to it without feeling like I was gonna spill the drink on my neighbor.

SJC ORD LDR

When did they add more C+ to the CR9? It's been a couple years since I've had to ride on one, so I'm not doubting it.

I think you're right with the 739. It's a horrible, horrible airplane. Adding more C+ would require removal of seats and they don't want to do it. Sadly, we're stuck with those miserable pieces of garbage until most of us are retired.

ethernal

What is Comfort+ good for besides the extra leg room? Maybe I've underestimated how many people do take advantage of the drink option, but that is a trivial $5 benefit at most. This is especially true if you already have Sky Priority via Gold status or higher (I could see the benefit to a non-statused traveler). Other than that, maybe saving 5 minutes deplaning since the seats are usually close to the front of the plane?

In the case of my bookings the exit rows are already taken as pretty much anyone can get them (silver and gold medallions and corporate bookings). They are almost always the first seats taken on the plane. On very rare occasion a middle exit row seat may be available. In this way the AA and UA setting of having them be MCE/Y+ seats is beneficial as it restricts the pool of people that can access them.

This is the source of my frustration. My options are limited to.. (a) sit in 30-31" seat pitch seat (which is uncomfortable and impedes work) or (b) pay an extra $500-800 for first class which I don't want or need. There is no option where I pay a nominal fee (or get upgraded) to a seat where I am not straight up uncomfortable for the majority of the flight.