Warning: KLM flights face delays starting Saturday (if they normally fly over Russia)
Nov 2, 2017, 8:27 pm
#1
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Warning: KLM flights face delays starting Saturday (if they normally fly over Russia)
I'm posting this here in the DL forum as a public service announcement for DL travelers with connections to/from KLM operated flights.
There's an alarming thread in the KLM subforum of the FB (AF and KLM) forum discussing a spat between Russia and the Netherlands over a Russian cargo carrier wanting more slots at AMS. If things aren't resolved by Saturday, November 4, 2017, a big fraction of KLM flights could be either delayed (due to much longer than normal flight times) or cancelled: Russia is threatening to close all Russian airspace to Dutch aircraft. This includes not only flights to/from Russia, but also many Asia routes (which are likely to be among the most profitable flights for KLM).
I'm posting this here as a warning since many DL travelers use connections through AMS. Be sure to watch your itineraries and flight status. AFAIK no waiver has been issued, but it might be possible to rebook some tickets to connect through CDG on AF or even LHR using VS to some of it's Asian destinations if you're likely to be affected.
For service to Moscow, KLM currently operates two daily flights and SU three from AMS to SVO and vv, while there's more service to/from CDG between AF and SU, with many of them being codeshares. Also, award tickets using the SU flights tend to be offered as "mixed classes" with economy on the SU flights, even though they have business class cabins. I would expect the same situation for St Petersberg but with fewer frequencies.
There's an alarming thread in the KLM subforum of the FB (AF and KLM) forum discussing a spat between Russia and the Netherlands over a Russian cargo carrier wanting more slots at AMS. If things aren't resolved by Saturday, November 4, 2017, a big fraction of KLM flights could be either delayed (due to much longer than normal flight times) or cancelled: Russia is threatening to close all Russian airspace to Dutch aircraft. This includes not only flights to/from Russia, but also many Asia routes (which are likely to be among the most profitable flights for KLM).
I'm posting this here as a warning since many DL travelers use connections through AMS. Be sure to watch your itineraries and flight status. AFAIK no waiver has been issued, but it might be possible to rebook some tickets to connect through CDG on AF or even LHR using VS to some of it's Asian destinations if you're likely to be affected.
For service to Moscow, KLM currently operates two daily flights and SU three from AMS to SVO and vv, while there's more service to/from CDG between AF and SU, with many of them being codeshares. Also, award tickets using the SU flights tend to be offered as "mixed classes" with economy on the SU flights, even though they have business class cabins. I would expect the same situation for St Petersberg but with fewer frequencies.
Nov 2, 2017, 9:34 pm
#2
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Nov 2, 2017, 11:40 pm
#3
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I think the concerns here are overblown.
It seems like this would affect flights to northern Asia the worst. Routing around Russia to the south, such as over Azerbaijan, and then on to Japan adds ~1,100 miles. 1h45m-2h extra flying time. To Beijing, an extra ~600 miles / 1h. If you're flying to these destinations via AMS, then sure, it may be safest to explore rerouting.
Every destination south of that becomes increasingly negligible. Maybe ~300 extra miles to HKG. Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia would be essentially unaffected.
This is not all that different than what QR has managed to do for some number of months (i.e. routing flights up through Iran, adding 500+ miles to some trips). (Not interested in having a discussion here about QR's financing and competitive position. The point is they still fly the routes with considerably longer routings, and people still buy those tickets.)
So I doubt the impact will be as widely felt as some believe. The other thread in the KLM forum suggests flights up to 5 hours longer - that seems majorly overblown and I would love to see what analysis went into that. I doubt a bit of extra fuel cost is going to shut down these routes in the immediate term, especially if these routes are as profitable as you suggest. KLM may have some calculus to do long term; if the dispute is protracted, they may will perform a QR-like adaptation for as long as it makes sense.
It seems like this would affect flights to northern Asia the worst. Routing around Russia to the south, such as over Azerbaijan, and then on to Japan adds ~1,100 miles. 1h45m-2h extra flying time. To Beijing, an extra ~600 miles / 1h. If you're flying to these destinations via AMS, then sure, it may be safest to explore rerouting.
Every destination south of that becomes increasingly negligible. Maybe ~300 extra miles to HKG. Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia would be essentially unaffected.
This is not all that different than what QR has managed to do for some number of months (i.e. routing flights up through Iran, adding 500+ miles to some trips). (Not interested in having a discussion here about QR's financing and competitive position. The point is they still fly the routes with considerably longer routings, and people still buy those tickets.)
So I doubt the impact will be as widely felt as some believe. The other thread in the KLM forum suggests flights up to 5 hours longer - that seems majorly overblown and I would love to see what analysis went into that. I doubt a bit of extra fuel cost is going to shut down these routes in the immediate term, especially if these routes are as profitable as you suggest. KLM may have some calculus to do long term; if the dispute is protracted, they may will perform a QR-like adaptation for as long as it makes sense.
Nov 3, 2017, 4:17 am
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You're fine.
KLM has concluded a "commercial agreement" with the Russian freight company Air Bridge Cargo (ABC) in the Schiphol dispute over landing and landing. With this, the threat of a possible closure of the Siberian airspace for KLM is now on track.
Now thanks to Schiphol and her slotcoordinators (that appearently don't have much real life experience/a helicopterview when they make those decisions) see the other goverments of the airlines that lost slots pour in and threaten KLM.
KLM has concluded a "commercial agreement" with the Russian freight company Air Bridge Cargo (ABC) in the Schiphol dispute over landing and landing. With this, the threat of a possible closure of the Siberian airspace for KLM is now on track.
Now thanks to Schiphol and her slotcoordinators (that appearently don't have much real life experience/a helicopterview when they make those decisions) see the other goverments of the airlines that lost slots pour in and threaten KLM.