Airline passengers refuse to wait for body of servicemember to leave aircraft
Jul 14, 2017, 10:35 am
#61
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Not being military I knew nothing of the traditions prior to watching the movie I linked and connecting the dots one trip through LAX after witnessing a couple of airport fire trucks doing a water cannon salute to what I viewed as a small private jet, which I later discovered was one of those Kalitta flights. After that I paid more attention. Prior, if requested by the FA or pilot, I just remained in my seat but didn't really know the details of why. It never was more than five or ten minutes. Being a long-time FT'er and flying long before FT, I knew it was prudent to always, if not O&D, build in substantial layover time so a brief delay wasn't ever a problem.
Sure, I'd like to see the military handle all the logistics in-house but in our beancounter world everything is analyzed and given a monetary value, even our dead who enable the beancounters to exist. It is what it is.
Considering this thread is about a Delta flight, it is ironic the subject airline in the movie I linked that undoubtedly got some good PR out of the deal is now part of Delta. Besides, for an aviation wonk, there's tons of plane stuff to watch. For a more recent example, here's a real life loading on a Delta flight about a year ago, including water canon salute.
Jul 14, 2017, 10:52 am
#62
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I don't have much to add, except my appreciation for this thread's mostly well-reasoned and even-keeled debate on an extremely sensitive topic. Delta flyers represent innumerable viewpoints and nationalities, and the solemn ritual at hand will mean vastly different things to different people. Well done, folks. ^
Jul 14, 2017, 11:40 am
#63
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I don't have much to add, except my appreciation for this thread's mostly well-reasoned and even-keeled debate on an extremely sensitive topic. Delta flyers represent innumerable viewpoints and nationalities, and the solemn ritual at hand will mean vastly different things to different people. Well done, folks. ^
I expected this thread to go off the rails rather quickly. It is gratifying to see that it has not.
This is a very difficult topic, with no right answer.
The only right thing is to remain respectful, and this thread and its participants have.
Jul 14, 2017, 1:36 pm
#64
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My personal views:
. I would certainly sit and allow those traveling with the soldier to disembark.
. If (as was not the case here) it was a small plane where we exited to the tarmak. I would wait for the honor guard to clear out of the way.
BUT, in this case, where exiting via the jet bridge, I just do not get it. They on are the tarmack. There is no difference between me using the jetbridge and those on the adjacent plane doing the same. Or if there is, I do not understand why.
If there is some specific tradition in play, perhaps somebody could explain.
On the subject of enforcing remaining on the plane though, I have a strong opinion. It is un-American to do so, and would be an insult to those who fought to protect our freedom.
. I would certainly sit and allow those traveling with the soldier to disembark.
. If (as was not the case here) it was a small plane where we exited to the tarmak. I would wait for the honor guard to clear out of the way.
BUT, in this case, where exiting via the jet bridge, I just do not get it. They on are the tarmack. There is no difference between me using the jetbridge and those on the adjacent plane doing the same. Or if there is, I do not understand why.
If there is some specific tradition in play, perhaps somebody could explain.
On the subject of enforcing remaining on the plane though, I have a strong opinion. It is un-American to do so, and would be an insult to those who fought to protect our freedom.
Last edited by exwannabe; Jul 14, 2017 at 2:48 pm
Jul 14, 2017, 1:40 pm
#65
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On my flight last year which I previously posted about carrying a deceased military service member onboard our flight, we were asked to remain seated only until the military escort exited the airplane, it took all of about 15 seconds for the escort to walk from his seat towards the rear of the
A-320 to the forward door.
I hardly think that a 15 second delay in disembarking would cause any problems with connections, and it appeared so because no one stood up before the escort left the airplane.
Mr. Elliott
A-320 to the forward door.
I hardly think that a 15 second delay in disembarking would cause any problems with connections, and it appeared so because no one stood up before the escort left the airplane.
Mr. Elliott
Jul 14, 2017, 1:42 pm
#66
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On my flight last year which I previously posted about carrying a deceased military service member onboard our flight, we were asked to remain seated only until the military escort exited the airplane, it took all of about 15 seconds for the escort to walk from his seat towards the rear of the
A-320 to the forward door.
I hardly think that a 15 second delay in disembarking would cause any problems with connections, and it appeared so because no one stood up before the escort left the airplane.
Mr. Elliott
A-320 to the forward door.
I hardly think that a 15 second delay in disembarking would cause any problems with connections, and it appeared so because no one stood up before the escort left the airplane.
Mr. Elliott
Jul 14, 2017, 1:51 pm
#67
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Based on the posts here - it seems like the DOD does not request that all passengers remain seated until the coffin is removed, but only until those accompanying the casket exits the plane. There is also no Delta rule that the passengers remain seated until the casket is removed.
No one who has posted has a problem with waiting until those accompanying the casket get off the plane. Seems like a decent thing to do.
So it sounds like one or more pilots have a personal opinion that everyone should stay on the plane until the casket is removed,and attempt to impose that personal view on the passengers. I don't think there is a reasonable argument that these situations should be handled based upon the personal opinion of the individual pilot.
No one who has posted has a problem with waiting until those accompanying the casket get off the plane. Seems like a decent thing to do.
So it sounds like one or more pilots have a personal opinion that everyone should stay on the plane until the casket is removed,and attempt to impose that personal view on the passengers. I don't think there is a reasonable argument that these situations should be handled based upon the personal opinion of the individual pilot.
Jul 14, 2017, 1:58 pm
#68
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My older brother is a combat engineer, so I get the outrage. However, knowing that a missed tight connection can put one at the whims of finding space on the next flight, possibly getting hit with an SDC and/or a major delay, etc., I can see some pax not being willing to wait more than 1-2 minutes. I've had to run through an airport more than once to make a "legal" connection because I had to change terminals. [1]
The compromise that I can see here is pairing the request with a "delay certificate" like they issue in Japan for the pax and an order to their connecting flights to hold for a few minutes (the latter could be conveyed electronically) and/or guarantee them a priority seat on the next flight if they have a near-miss. Basically, if you want pax on close connections to wait, then you have to expect DL to be bound over to accommodate them.
[1] This is usually in ATL, but I got to take a bit of a jog the other day at MSP...nominally arrived six minutes early but the run from Bravo or Charlie to Foxtrot, I forget which, is still quite a trip and boarding had already commenced for my flight when I got there. Add in DTW's incessant "must be onboard 20 minutes before departure for security reasons" and some other horror stories involving premature door-closing times and folks are going to "hurry up and wait".
Jul 14, 2017, 2:26 pm
#69
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There is nothing to get. It's simply a case of a small number of extremely vocal people imagining disrespect where there is none.
Jul 14, 2017, 3:20 pm
#70
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Someone further up the thread asked if we should remain on board every time their are any human (civilian) remains being transferred from the aircraft and I always tell people that they'd be surprised just how often they are sitting above remains. I'd say it's at least 1 of every 3 flights, maybe more.
-Someone who used to work in cargo for a certain hub airline at ORD/IAD.
Jul 14, 2017, 5:28 pm
#71
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Jul 16, 2017, 2:05 am
#72
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But the article did not mention any such persons on the plane. There was no mention of any request to remain seated while the honor guard got off; rather they expected everyone to stay put.
Jul 16, 2017, 12:44 pm
#73
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As a resident of San Clemente, that neighbors Camp Pendleton and has many family members (via marriage) and friends who have sacrificed for this country, I am completely disgusted by the lack of respect and homage paid to a fallen serviceman.
I feel the pilot could have shut this down by saying that the door would remain closed until the service member was finished being transported and for that for every minute some jerk refused to comply , the doors would remain closed until the last person took their seat and waited until the process was finished.
I feel the pilot could have shut this down by saying that the door would remain closed until the service member was finished being transported and for that for every minute some jerk refused to comply , the doors would remain closed until the last person took their seat and waited until the process was finished.
Forced patriotism is what North Korea does.
I don't care that you live near a military base. I don't care how many friends or family members you have that are in the military. America is not a police state, so please stop pretending like it is, and leave the rest of us alone!
Jul 16, 2017, 2:09 pm
#74
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Seriously, did anyone watch the video? This is a moot issue and discussion.
The video was edited and spliced together. The boarding (unboarding) music playing when people are getting off the plane -- and not when the service for the member is happening -- clearly shows that the video of people getting off the plane occurred after the service member was transferred to the hearse.
This is a discussion that mostly did not / does not need to happen because the situation did not happen.
The video was edited and spliced together. The boarding (unboarding) music playing when people are getting off the plane -- and not when the service for the member is happening -- clearly shows that the video of people getting off the plane occurred after the service member was transferred to the hearse.
This is a discussion that mostly did not / does not need to happen because the situation did not happen.
Jul 16, 2017, 3:41 pm
#75
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My personal views:
. I would certainly sit and allow those traveling with the soldier to disembark.
. If (as was not the case here) it was a small plane where we exited to the tarmak. I would wait for the honor guard to clear out of the way.
BUT, in this case, where exiting via the jet bridge, I just do not get it. They on are the tarmack. There is no difference between me using the jetbridge and those on the adjacent plane doing the same. Or if there is, I do not understand why.
If there is some specific tradition in play, perhaps somebody could explain.
On the subject of enforcing remaining on the plane though, I have a strong opinion. It is un-American to do so, and would be an insult to those who fought to protect our freedom.
. I would certainly sit and allow those traveling with the soldier to disembark.
. If (as was not the case here) it was a small plane where we exited to the tarmak. I would wait for the honor guard to clear out of the way.
BUT, in this case, where exiting via the jet bridge, I just do not get it. They on are the tarmack. There is no difference between me using the jetbridge and those on the adjacent plane doing the same. Or if there is, I do not understand why.
If there is some specific tradition in play, perhaps somebody could explain.
On the subject of enforcing remaining on the plane though, I have a strong opinion. It is un-American to do so, and would be an insult to those who fought to protect our freedom.