Originally Posted by FWAAA
(Post 26626582)
Sure, HA's existing flight has some strong numbers, but that flight benefits zero percent of the American traveling public. Quite frankly, the US government didn't negotiate valuable HND rights (especially daytime rights) so that a leisure-oriented airline in HI could use those rights to fly Japanese tourists to the islands. Especially when HA could obtain the same economic impact and benefit if it chose to fly from NRT.
Originally Posted by FWAAA
(Post 26626582)
These very limited frequencies' highest and best use is to enable US business travelers (whose destination is Tokyo) to use the preferred Tokyo airport.
If anyone is TYO bound, they can just as easily fly to NRT, which is easier and more convenient (choice of two direct and relatively fast trains) to get to the city from anyway than HND (requires multiple train/metro changes), though yes it's a longer distance away. That is why HA needs the slots from HND. In order to get the maximum economic impact for the US and thus have the most public good, the connections at HND are essential, since the onward destinations served from NRT are many less than from HND. In short, NRT makes sense to fly to if your destination is Tokyo. HND is the place to go if you are traveling onwards to elsewhere in Japan. Same vice versa. |
Originally Posted by RealHJ
(Post 26626945)
If anyone is TYO bound, they can just as easily fly to NRT, which is easier and more convenient (choice of two direct and relatively fast trains) to get to the city from anyway than HND (requires multiple train/metro changes), though yes it's a longer distance away.
HND is like LGA, but even better since it has a fast subway connection to Tokyo. |
Originally Posted by FWAAA
(Post 26626582)
Sure, HA's existing flight has some strong numbers, but that flight benefits zero percent of the American traveling public. Quite frankly, the US government didn't negotiate valuable HND rights (especially daytime rights) so that a leisure-oriented airline in HI could use those rights to fly Japanese tourists to the islands.
Originally Posted by FWAAA
(Post 26626582)
These very limited frequencies' highest and best use is to enable US business travelers (whose destination is Tokyo) to use the preferred Tokyo airport.
Originally Posted by RealHJ
(Post 26626945)
In short, NRT makes sense to fly to if your destination is Tokyo. HND is the place to go if you are traveling onwards to elsewhere in Japan. Same vice versa.
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Originally Posted by sbm12
(Post 26628289)
Really? I thought the value requirement was to be for the benefit of the US economy, not specifically for outbound travelers.
I believe DOT specifically mentioned the slots were in the best interests of business travelers not to primarily leisure travelers. While yes there is business travel between HNL and TYO, is it worth it to sacrifice two of the six HND slots just to serve Hawai'i? At least with LAX-HND there is plenty of onward connections, in addition to the strong local business market. Don't get me wrong, I do not oppose granting HAL a HND slot. In fact, I believe it's necessary especially since NH will be launching daytime HNL-HND. But to give HAL a third of the HND slots while the primary traveler on those routes will be for leisure is ludicrous. DL has a better case of receiving three daytime HND slots than HAL has of receiving two HND slots. |
The latest round of arguments makes it pretty difficult to justify giving DL MSP or ATL. The O&D markets are just far too small, and the connectivity offered by EWR and DFW appear superior.
The only thing DL really has going for it is the competition factor, but quantity isn't everything; DL can't remotely expect to be competitive by offering MSP/ATL-HND. Would have been interesting to see DL apply for LAX/JFK/DTW instead, with them allowing LAX to remain as a nighttime flight. |
Originally Posted by sbm12
(Post 26628289)
Really? I thought the value requirement was to be for the benefit of the US economy, not specifically for outbound travelers.
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Originally Posted by Fanjet
(Post 26631033)
Nope. The DOT is only concerned about the benefit to the American traveler. It isn't even concerned about the benefit to an airline. And the "local economic impact" concern is the domain of the local civic leaders and Chamber of Commerce. Not the DOT.
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Originally Posted by RealHJ
(Post 26626945)
HA does fly to NRT.
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Originally Posted by RealHJ
(Post 26631238)
So in other words, then the local governments should be lobbying DOT to take a more rational stance and consider the economic impact to the US (where obviously bringing high-spending travelers to the US actually has a positive impact, while sending Americans away has at best zero, if not net negative, impact).
This would be like all U.S.-London flights having to be flown into LGW except for 5 flights which can use LHR. And then the DOT awards one of the exemptions to MCO-LHR. BTW, Japanese tourists also visit LA and NYC as well. |
Originally Posted by Longboater
(Post 26628433)
If it was to the benefit of the US economy, KOA-HND would have been approved in either of the last two slot allocations. A nonstop TYO would serve the economy of West Hawai'i well.
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Originally Posted by pbarnette
(Post 26631768)
Really? In what way is providing some modest benefit to an area that is likely around 0.05% of the US economy in the best benefit of the US economy? Were the benefit to Western Hawaii that significant, then I'd think they could provide a local subsidy for KOA-NRT, rather than asking the remaining 99.95% of the country to provide them a subsidy.
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Looks like HA got a night slot.... front page of FT site.
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Originally Posted by Longboater
(Post 26632666)
Subsidy from the Government of Hawai'i? Well, if they had the cash, they would.
Originally Posted by Longboater
(Post 26632666)
After JAL ended KOA-NRT several years ago, there was a downturn in business in West Hawai'i.
Originally Posted by Longboater
(Post 26632666)
There will be a noticeable increase in Japanese tourism in West Hawai'i, which will help the island's economy as a whole.
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Some of you have some crow to eat. HA has been awarded KOA-HND. I'm very happy for them. No one has done a better job with HND than HA.
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare
(Post 26637748)
Some of you have some crow to eat. HA has been awarded KOA-HND. I'm very happy for them. No one has done a better job with HND than HA.
This reads to me like a pro forma approval of HA's uncontested application for the nighttime slot pair, operated as 3x KOA and 4x HNL. HA's application for the daytime HNL slot is in the competition with everyone else. The press release makes no mention of dates. Is this effective immediately (i.e. HA can operate the daytime HBL slot it was awarded as a simple, temporary transfer of the existing nighttime slots in addition to this pending completion of the competitive proceeding permanently allocating all six HND rights) or is this the DOT awarding the permanent nighttime routes before announcing the permanent daytime route approvals? If this is just temporary, it makes perfect sense. Might as well let HA use the uncontested rights in the meantime. Even if it's permanent, it's hard to argue with approving an uncontested application. |
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