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Old Jun 17, 2015 | 4:35 pm
  #31  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
C on AF does not come with the privilege of using the new DL VIP check in lounge, but all confirmed business class passengers on SkyTeam partners should get SkyPriority everything.

Isn't AF C in fact a pretty high (or even the highest) business class fare class?

IIRC elsewhere in this thread OP referred to a DL D fare class being converted to Z on LX when he was rebooked by DL.
It was originally booked as a D fare on both AF and DL, which was then converted to a Z fare on LX, which was then fixed at ZRH to J.

As for the SkyPriority and DL VIP, I walked to T5 and over to the regular Special Services lane, with all of my AF documents and my Club 2000 card. The person shunting the lines informed me that I could use the SkyPriority counters, but that was based on my C reservation, and when I inquired about the VIP channel (because I had thought that perhaps Club 2000 = DL 360), I was informed that 1) is only for DL 360 and D1 passengers only and 2) that DL doesn't know about Club 2000 or AF Petroleum. All in all, it jogged my memory as to how I remember DL would treat partner Elites, as well as that a business class ticket doesn't necessarily come with SkyPriority perks--although at LAX, the only Special Services counter that was open was the one by general check-in.
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Old Jun 17, 2015 | 4:42 pm
  #32  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
If there can be a deadline for both the check in counter presentation and also the gate presentation, they one could never satisfy the second requirement if the check in agent refuses to issue either a boarding pass or a seat request card. AFAIK this is what happened in this case: OP never was issued a boarding pass for the AF flight and therefore could not clear TSA security and go to the gate.
OP seemed to make it to the gate in plenty of time one way or another. Plus it's just silly to think the airline could shirk IDB responsibilities just by keeping a passenger from getting to the gate.
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Old Jun 17, 2015 | 5:09 pm
  #33  
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Originally Posted by djk7
OP seemed to make it to the gate in plenty of time one way or another. Plus it's just silly to think the airline could shirk IDB responsibilities just by keeping a passenger from getting to the gate.
I don't think so. OP couldn't check in and wasn't able to go through TSA security until after DL in another terminal had rebooked him and reissued the ticket for the LX flights, so that he could then check in with LX and proceed to that gate. By that time, the original AF LAX-CDG flight had left long ago.

Of course it's silly, but that's what the rules seem to say.
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Old Jun 17, 2015 | 6:43 pm
  #34  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
If there can be a deadline for both the check in counter presentation and also the gate presentation, they one could never satisfy the second requirement if the check in agent refuses to issue either a boarding pass or a seat request card. AFAIK this is what happened in this case: OP never was issued a boarding pass for the AF flight and therefore could not clear TSA security and go to the gate.
At best, that would be bad faith on the part of the airline, and should be subject to even greater penalties if they try to use it as an excuse for not paying IDB compensation.
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Old Jun 17, 2015 | 6:47 pm
  #35  
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Originally Posted by sethb
At best, that would be bad faith on the part of the airline, and should be subject to even greater penalties if they try to use it as an excuse for not paying IDB compensation.
However, if you go to the counter and the agent refuses to give you a boarding pass, how do you prove that you presented yourself for check in before the deadline? You might not be allowed to photograph or record the GA.
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Old Jun 17, 2015 | 7:13 pm
  #36  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
However, if you go to the counter and the agent refuses to give you a boarding pass, how do you prove that you presented yourself for check in before the deadline? You might not be allowed to photograph or record the GA.
I'm allowed to record (in this state, anyway). And I'm allowed to photograph.

But I can also subpoena the airport's security camera footage to show I was there, as well as the airline's computer records to show that the agent looked up my ticket at the appropriate time.
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Old Jun 17, 2015 | 8:49 pm
  #37  
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Originally Posted by sethb
I'm allowed to record (in this state, anyway). And I'm allowed to photograph.

But I can also subpoena the airport's security camera footage to show I was there, as well as the airline's computer records to show that the agent looked up my ticket at the appropriate time.
A subpoena presumes a court case. I'm thinking more about an IDB claim to the carrier and then a complaint to DOT.
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Old Jun 17, 2015 | 8:58 pm
  #38  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
A subpoena presumes a court case. I'm thinking more about an IDB claim to the carrier and then a complaint to DOT.
And if the airline tries to lie about it, DOT won't like that. At all.
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Old Jun 18, 2015 | 3:30 am
  #39  
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I don't understand why stuff like this happens in 2015. We have all this technology, but we also have _people_. I work in technology (it pays the bills), and many times I advise teams that human solutions are a great supplement to their tech solutions.
As a suggestion/example....
DL/AF/KL/VS are in a TATL JV. It would take very little time to instruct all the red-coats at complex stations like this (e.g. LAX) to meet and introduce each other over 30 minutes of coffee once every two months (keep it fresh). Get a little name and face recognition, and exchange supervisor desk/cell numbers. One day fgirard walks up to the counter and the following should've happened....
- fgirard tries to check in with CI (check-in) agent
- agent is blocked by computer, gets supervisor
- supervisor is also confused/unclear. See's it's a DL ticket. Somehow cannot see/access the ticket.
- Supervisor picks up phone, dials DL supervisor desk at LAX, "Hi Linda, this is Jerry over at AF, having a problem with a ticket, can you help me clarify? ticket # is 123456.", then, "Oh hi Jerry, we met at the LAX supervisor coffee meetup right? No problem, I see this ticket is a confirmed reservation for AAA > BBB purchased via DLWEB and is for fare class J. Anything else you need?"... "Yeah, it says the ticket is under AIRPT CTRL but we can't unlock it, can you help?"...."Sure, let me call the gate and get them to XYZ." And the two of them continue until the issue is resolved. The passenger waits for 5-10 minutes.


Why is the passenger running between terminals? This is simply poor management and customer service.

Last edited by WhiskeyBravo; Jun 18, 2015 at 3:38 am Reason: clarity
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Old Jun 18, 2015 | 4:19 am
  #40  
 
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Originally Posted by WhiskeyBravo
I don't understand why stuff like this happens in 2015. We have all this technology, but we also have _people_. I work in technology (it pays the bills), and many times I advise teams that human solutions are a great supplement to their tech solutions.
As a suggestion/example....
DL/AF/KL/VS are in a TATL JV. It would take very little time to instruct all the red-coats at complex stations like this (e.g. LAX) to meet and introduce each other over 30 minutes of coffee once every two months (keep it fresh). Get a little name and face recognition, and exchange supervisor desk/cell numbers. One day fgirard walks up to the counter and the following should've happened....
- fgirard tries to check in with CI (check-in) agent
- agent is blocked by computer, gets supervisor
- supervisor is also confused/unclear. See's it's a DL ticket. Somehow cannot see/access the ticket.
- Supervisor picks up phone, dials DL supervisor desk at LAX, "Hi Linda, this is Jerry over at AF, having a problem with a ticket, can you help me clarify? ticket # is 123456.", then, "Oh hi Jerry, we met at the LAX supervisor coffee meetup right? No problem, I see this ticket is a confirmed reservation for AAA > BBB purchased via DLWEB and is for fare class J. Anything else you need?"... "Yeah, it says the ticket is under AIRPT CTRL but we can't unlock it, can you help?"...."Sure, let me call the gate and get them to XYZ." And the two of them continue until the issue is resolved. The passenger waits for 5-10 minutes.

Why is the passenger running between terminals? This is simply poor management and customer service.
I suspect this example you provided wouldn't work in this case because between the time OP bought the ticket and check in, AF sold his seat in J creating and oversold situation.

Since AF/KL are the same company, the best solution would be AF placing OP on a KL flight to AMS (if that flight wasn't sold out) with a short hop to CDG. But alas, since AF/KL has a INP culture, it doesn't surprise me.

The AF/KL JV with DL is probably the reason why OP's ticket, although purchased on AF.com (us site), has a DL ticket code. This allowed AF got pushed the problem DL to handle (cost and headache) rather than handling the problem themselves.

On hind sight with such an Issue, I would have gone to DL earlier and they may have placed me on KL rather than deal with AF. This is a case where AF let is elite member down not DL imo.

Last edited by DHalltheway; Jun 18, 2015 at 4:32 am
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Old Jun 18, 2015 | 8:42 am
  #41  
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Originally Posted by WhiskeyBravo
I don't understand why stuff like this happens in 2015. We have all this technology, but we also have _people_. I work in technology (it pays the bills), and many times I advise teams that human solutions are a great supplement to their tech solutions.
As a suggestion/example....
DL/AF/KL/VS are in a TATL JV. It would take very little time to instruct all the red-coats at complex stations like this (e.g. LAX) to meet and introduce each other over 30 minutes of coffee once every two months (keep it fresh). Get a little name and face recognition, and exchange supervisor desk/cell numbers. One day fgirard walks up to the counter and the following should've happened....
- fgirard tries to check in with CI (check-in) agent
- agent is blocked by computer, gets supervisor
- supervisor is also confused/unclear. See's it's a DL ticket. Somehow cannot see/access the ticket.
- Supervisor picks up phone, dials DL supervisor desk at LAX, "Hi Linda, this is Jerry over at AF, having a problem with a ticket, can you help me clarify? ticket # is 123456.", then, "Oh hi Jerry, we met at the LAX supervisor coffee meetup right? No problem, I see this ticket is a confirmed reservation for AAA > BBB purchased via DLWEB and is for fare class J. Anything else you need?"... "Yeah, it says the ticket is under AIRPT CTRL but we can't unlock it, can you help?"...."Sure, let me call the gate and get them to XYZ." And the two of them continue until the issue is resolved. The passenger waits for 5-10 minutes.


Why is the passenger running between terminals? This is simply poor management and customer service.
The AF staff told me that my best route to getting re-booked was to shuffle over to T5 and deal with the DL staff as they were the ones that technically sold the ticket. And it became clear that they weren't going to assist as they were preparing to open check-in for the LAX-PPT flight.

Originally Posted by DHalltheway
I suspect this example you provided wouldn't work in this case because between the time OP bought the ticket and check in, AF sold his seat in J creating and oversold situation.

Since AF/KL are the same company, the best solution would be AF placing OP on a KL flight to AMS (if that flight wasn't sold out) with a short hop to CDG. But alas, since AF/KL has a INP culture, it doesn't surprise me.

The AF/KL JV with DL is probably the reason why OP's ticket, although purchased on AF.com (us site), has a DL ticket code. This allowed AF got pushed the problem DL to handle (cost and headache) rather than handling the problem themselves.

On hind sight with such an Issue, I would have gone to DL earlier and they may have placed me on KL rather than deal with AF. This is a case where AF let is elite member down not DL imo.
IIRC, even a few years ago, when booking a ticket from airfrance.us, it would show as a 057 ticket, which caused headaches when the first segment was on DL. But now, it is reversed and brings up a question: If I purchase a ticket through the AF Metropolitan France portal, with my origin in the US, does DL issue the ticket?

According to the AF call center here in France, Club 2000 should be afforded the same privileges as Diamond/360, but when I asked if there was a location on the webpage to explain that, I was told that it was INP.
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Old Jun 18, 2015 | 9:32 am
  #42  
 
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Originally Posted by fgirard
IIRC, even a few years ago, when booking a ticket from airfrance.us, it would show as a 057 ticket, which caused headaches when the first segment was on DL. But now, it is reversed and brings up a question: If I purchase a ticket through the AF Metropolitan France portal, with my origin in the US, does DL issue the ticket?
Was that before or after DL agents started answerings calls to AF/KL?

There is an easy way to find out. Book tickets you can cancel without any penalty on both US and French portal.

According to the AF call center here in France, Club 2000 should be afforded the same privileges as Diamond/360, but when I asked if there was a location on the webpage to explain that, I was told that it was INP.
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Old Jun 18, 2015 | 11:10 am
  #43  
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Originally Posted by fgirard
The AF staff told me that my best route to getting re-booked was to shuffle over to T5 and deal with the DL staff as they were the ones that technically sold the ticket. And it became clear that they weren't going to assist as they were preparing to open check-in for the LAX-PPT flight.
I'd ask them to write me the check for Denied Boarding Compensation first.
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