when is refundable not refundable
Dec 27, 2014, 9:31 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2006
Location: STL
Programs: UA Platinum, AA Platinum Pro, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 1,429
when is refundable not refundable
Just bought an A fare LAXSFO for travel today and in the summary screen before purchase it said "ticket is refundable/changeable"; then I get an email saying "This ticket is non-refundable unless the original ticket was issued at a fully refundable fare". Call DL and agent said it isn't refundable but 24 hour cancellation with no penalty/refund would apply.
So is "A" refundable, because it sure seems to advertise an up sell to "fully refundable/flexible fare?
So is "A" refundable, because it sure seems to advertise an up sell to "fully refundable/flexible fare?
Dec 27, 2014, 10:53 am
#3
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,413
Did you use a credit from an earlier changed or canceled ticket for part of the purchase price or even do a simple up fare into FC? If so, your original fare rules probably continue to apply. This is standard.
Not also that refundable isn't the same as changeable and refundable could mean refundable for a fee versus fully refundable.
Not also that refundable isn't the same as changeable and refundable could mean refundable for a fee versus fully refundable.
Dec 27, 2014, 10:58 am
#4
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MSP
Programs: DL GM, AMEX Business Platinum, AMEX Delta Reserve, DL SkyClub Member, Choice PM
Posts: 2,218
Yes had a similar incident in Oct/Nov'14.
Searched for and booked at www.delta.com a FULLY Refundable 1 way ticket.
This was because I was not sure I would travel that particular day.
When I called in to cancel and rebook was told it was a non-refundable fare.
Fare basis: SA07UPRA
However an agent did the needful.
Searched for and booked at www.delta.com a FULLY Refundable 1 way ticket.
This was because I was not sure I would travel that particular day.
When I called in to cancel and rebook was told it was a non-refundable fare.
Fare basis: SA07UPRA
However an agent did the needful.
Dec 27, 2014, 11:12 am
#5
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: ATL
Programs: Delta PlM, 1M
Posts: 6,365
The fare code ("A" or whatever) is insufficient to know the answer, one must see the entire fare rules.
W/o clicking through to the full fare rules, one never can be certain what they are getting.
"Refundable" does not mean what most think. DL can, and does, sell tickets with fees to cancel/change but are refundable. All it means is the remaining cash can be returned to the CC (or whatever form of payment) and not just kept as a DL credit for a future flight
Even a fully refundable fair that is paid via an e-cert just goes back to the e-cert (very reasonable, but adds to the murkiness).
My opinion is the process/disclosure is very sleazy.
DL should make a better effort to summarize the change/cancel fee and return rules.
DL should make the full fare rules easy to find (even after purchase).
And if DL does not, DOT should step in.
W/o clicking through to the full fare rules, one never can be certain what they are getting.
"Refundable" does not mean what most think. DL can, and does, sell tickets with fees to cancel/change but are refundable. All it means is the remaining cash can be returned to the CC (or whatever form of payment) and not just kept as a DL credit for a future flight
Even a fully refundable fair that is paid via an e-cert just goes back to the e-cert (very reasonable, but adds to the murkiness).
My opinion is the process/disclosure is very sleazy.
DL should make a better effort to summarize the change/cancel fee and return rules.
DL should make the full fare rules easy to find (even after purchase).
And if DL does not, DOT should step in.
Dec 27, 2014, 11:56 am
#6
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Canada
Programs: AS, DL, UA, Hyatt, SPG
Posts: 2,574
The fare code ("A" or whatever) is insufficient to know the answer, one must see the entire fare rules.
W/o clicking through to the full fare rules, one never can be certain what they are getting.
"Refundable" does not mean what most think. DL can, and does, sell tickets with fees to cancel/change but are refundable. All it means is the remaining cash can be returned to the CC (or whatever form of payment) and not just kept as a DL credit for a future flight
Even a fully refundable fair that is paid via an e-cert just goes back to the e-cert (very reasonable, but adds to the murkiness).
My opinion is the process/disclosure is very sleazy.
DL should make a better effort to summarize the change/cancel fee and return rules.
DL should make the full fare rules easy to find (even after purchase).
And if DL does not, DOT should step in.
W/o clicking through to the full fare rules, one never can be certain what they are getting.
"Refundable" does not mean what most think. DL can, and does, sell tickets with fees to cancel/change but are refundable. All it means is the remaining cash can be returned to the CC (or whatever form of payment) and not just kept as a DL credit for a future flight
Even a fully refundable fair that is paid via an e-cert just goes back to the e-cert (very reasonable, but adds to the murkiness).
My opinion is the process/disclosure is very sleazy.
DL should make a better effort to summarize the change/cancel fee and return rules.
DL should make the full fare rules easy to find (even after purchase).
And if DL does not, DOT should step in.
Very true points. Ever tried to look up the fare rules for your ticket after purchase? It's virtually impossible on Delta.com. Even prior to booking, if your ticket is constructed with multiple fare basis codes, it's confusing and user unfriendly to trawl through what is (quite literally) a huge solid block of text with no spacing or punctation, several pages long, in the "detailed fare rules" pop up box.
As DL introduces more and more "products" (Economy Basic, Main Cabin, EconomyComfort etc. etc.) they need to clearly delineate not just the main product differences - but also clearly outline the fees, if any, and amounts of fees for voluntary changes.
Dec 27, 2014, 12:58 pm
#7
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,413
DL should make the full fare rules possible to find (even during purchase).
It's indefensible that half of the time you can't even view the fare rules on delta.dumb as you're purchasing the ticket. I really wish the DOT would put a stop to this practice and force DL to fix their website so that the customer can see the fare rules.
It's indefensible that half of the time you can't even view the fare rules on delta.dumb as you're purchasing the ticket. I really wish the DOT would put a stop to this practice and force DL to fix their website so that the customer can see the fare rules.
Dec 27, 2014, 6:05 pm
#8
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: HNL
Programs: UA Gold | Former: DL Diamond, HA Pualani Gold
Posts: 380
Not only are they not available after purchase on the site, but I've been repeatedly rebuffed by email agents when I've asked for them to provide the entire printout of rules to me. All they would show me is a summary, even after a lot of back and forth.
I have a Sabre subscription now, though, so I can grab them that way.
I have a Sabre subscription now, though, so I can grab them that way.
Dec 27, 2014, 9:39 pm
#9
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: JFK/LGA
Programs: DL DM, HH Gold, SPG Platinum 100, National Executive Elite
Posts: 1,687
Dec 28, 2014, 12:58 pm
#10
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2006
Location: STL
Programs: UA Platinum, AA Platinum Pro, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 1,429
when is refundable not refundable
Thanks for all the replies. I never got a chance to check the full fare basis, but when I went to cancel online, it informed me that I would get a full refund back to original form of payment. I took screen shots just in case.
Though I tried to buy a ticket on B6 to fly JFKIAD and there policy is yes you can cancel the ticket within 24 hours but you have to be 7 days out from departure. Interesting how they have come up with a rule that kind of throws the 24 buy/shop around DOT law out the window, although I can understand their perspective.
Though I tried to buy a ticket on B6 to fly JFKIAD and there policy is yes you can cancel the ticket within 24 hours but you have to be 7 days out from departure. Interesting how they have come up with a rule that kind of throws the 24 buy/shop around DOT law out the window, although I can understand their perspective.
Dec 28, 2014, 3:59 pm
#11
Join Date: Nov 2009
Programs: DL PM 1MM
Posts: 3,441
Though I tried to buy a ticket on B6 to fly JFKIAD and there policy is yes you can cancel the ticket within 24 hours but you have to be 7 days out from departure. Interesting how they have come up with a rule that kind of throws the 24 buy/shop around DOT law out the window, although I can understand their perspective.
http://www.dot.gov/airconsumer/notic...ur-reservation
The 24-hour reservation requirement is mandated by the Department of Transportation’s consumer rule “Enhancing Airline Passenger Protections” (14 CFR 259.5(b)(4), 76 Fed. Reg. 23110, 23166, Apr. 25, 2011) and applies to all reservations made seven days or more prior to the flight’s scheduled departure time.
Dec 28, 2014, 4:33 pm
#12
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Boston, MA
Programs: DL PM, SPG Platinum
Posts: 616
Dec 28, 2014, 4:47 pm
#13
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: BOS/ORH
Programs: AS 75K
Posts: 18,323
http://www.sabretravelnetwork.com/ho...elector/remote
Dec 28, 2014, 6:12 pm
#14
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,413
Almost everything but ticketing for $45 a month. Same information was on Expertflyer but DL pulled the data
http://www.sabretravelnetwork.com/ho...elector/remote
http://www.sabretravelnetwork.com/ho...elector/remote
Is this done over the internet from any computer or device or is it a KVS-like downgrade on one's own computer system?
Dec 28, 2014, 9:47 pm
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: New York, NY, USA
Posts: 12,482
Looks like service allows setup as a remote TA for Sabre. It should show whatever is available to a regular TA. I don't think TAs have access to awards and upgrades at all, but they have access to detailed normal (paid) fare buckets, seat map as well as fare rules. DL should be included too.