Unintended consequences of 'Basic Economy'...
Dec 10, 2014, 10:47 am
#46
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chicago
Programs: UA 1K, HH Diamond
Posts: 2,055
Hate to break it to the people that are saying they will not switch, but yes you will or you will not fly. Delta cannot allow a toddler to fly unattended on a flight, so they will ask for volunteers first. If there are no takers they will move people around to either a new seat on the plane or if they refuse a seat in the terminal. They are not going to spend all day on this so if after asking a couple people with no luck they will just start moving you around.
FAR 121.11 a.2.i: No person may operate an airplane unless there are available during the takeoff, en route flight, and landing— Notwithstanding any other requirement of this chapter, occupy an approved child restraint system furnished by the certificate holder or one of the persons described in paragraph (b)(2)(i) of this section, provided: The child is accompanied by a parent, guardian, or attendant designated by the child's parent or guardian to attend to the safety of the child during the flight;
FAR 121.11 a.2.i: No person may operate an airplane unless there are available during the takeoff, en route flight, and landing— Notwithstanding any other requirement of this chapter, occupy an approved child restraint system furnished by the certificate holder or one of the persons described in paragraph (b)(2)(i) of this section, provided: The child is accompanied by a parent, guardian, or attendant designated by the child's parent or guardian to attend to the safety of the child during the flight;
Dec 10, 2014, 10:49 am
#47
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ATL
Posts: 637
Unintended consequence? Corporate customers, requiring their employees purchase the cheapest fare available, purchasing all of the BEC seats.
Given I have not flown DL on business trips for two years now (WN is always significantly cheaper out of ATL), I have no doubt this will happen.
Given I have not flown DL on business trips for two years now (WN is always significantly cheaper out of ATL), I have no doubt this will happen.
Dec 10, 2014, 10:53 am
#48
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: New York, western US
Programs: DM/3MM
Posts: 4,246
This needs to be a black box warning, including spelling out that you will likely not be sitting with other people on your reservation, including children, and not just in small type. And this black box should be seen regardless of in which channel you buy your tickets. Infrequent leisure travelers may indeed just be looking for the lowest fare, but most assume that they'll be able to sit together, so that needs to be very clear.
Dec 10, 2014, 11:00 am
#49
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,664
This needs to be a black box warning, including spelling out that you will likely not be sitting with other people on your reservation, including children, and not just in small type. And this black box should be seen regardless of in which channel you buy your tickets. Infrequent leisure travelers may indeed just be looking for the lowest fare, but most assume that they'll be able to sit together, so that needs to be very clear.
Dec 10, 2014, 11:04 am
#50
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chicago
Programs: UA 1K, HH Diamond
Posts: 2,055
This needs to be a black box warning, including spelling out that you will likely not be sitting with other people on your reservation, including children, and not just in small type. And this black box should be seen regardless of in which channel you buy your tickets. Infrequent leisure travelers may indeed just be looking for the lowest fare, but most assume that they'll be able to sit together, so that needs to be very clear.
Dec 10, 2014, 11:06 am
#51
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Dec 10, 2014, 11:09 am
#52
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chicago
Programs: UA 1K, HH Diamond
Posts: 2,055
Then are strangers expected to tend to the safety of a 2 year old seated between them without a car seat? Make sure their seat belt is buckled? Clean up their vomit? Make sure they take their medicine??? This is just common sense stuff. Either Delta already has solutions in place but they are not clear yet...or this is a huge oversight on their part. Stupid seat selection rule
Dec 10, 2014, 11:12 am
#53
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,394
Parents and children not sitting together is already a problem, and I doubt E fares will make it much better or worse. For every family on an E fare there will be another person on an E fare that would have otherwise taken a seat that a family now on a VXTU...etc fare ticket can take to sit together.
Plus on board the plane are you going to ask Mom and Dad as the frantically try to get seats next to their children what type of fare they bought? And even if you do ask them, do you think they're going to have any clue?
Plus on board the plane are you going to ask Mom and Dad as the frantically try to get seats next to their children what type of fare they bought? And even if you do ask them, do you think they're going to have any clue?
Dec 10, 2014, 11:17 am
#54
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: DL PM, 1MM, DL SC, Kimpton Inner Circle
Posts: 2,416
Perhaps as a condition of purchasing an E fare the rule should be that if you need particular seating arrangements that require others traveling on non-E fares to be displaced, then you should have to pay the difference between the E fare and a regular economy fare. If DL can process onboard payments to UG to C+, then this should be possible as well. Otherwise it is not fair to allow someone to purchase a cheaper fare an express condition of which is that you can't select seats in advance, and then get onboard and require particular seats that aren't available.
Dec 10, 2014, 11:19 am
#55
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: CHA, MAN;
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Parents and children not sitting together is already a problem, and I doubt E fares will make it much better or worse. For every family on an E fare there will be another person on an E fare that would have otherwise taken a seat that a family now on a VXTU...etc fare ticket can take to sit together.
Plus on board the plane are you going to ask Mom and Dad as the frantically try to get seats next to their children what type of fare they bought? And even if you do ask them, do you think they're going to have any clue?
Plus on board the plane are you going to ask Mom and Dad as the frantically try to get seats next to their children what type of fare they bought? And even if you do ask them, do you think they're going to have any clue?
Dec 10, 2014, 11:20 am
#56
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,664
That is just how the FARs are written when they add rules they generally just shove it in a subsection that closely fits it. In this case a child must have a seat belt on and must have someone with them. If they wanted a rule that said they must have a blue shirt on it would just go under it as well.
I miss listed the section it is 121.311 not .11, .11 is international carriers operating in the US and that is not useful here.
I miss listed the section it is 121.311 not .11, .11 is international carriers operating in the US and that is not useful here.
Dec 10, 2014, 11:23 am
#57
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: UA Silver, BA Gold, DL Gold
Posts: 9,779
I suspect this will be a non-issue.
I've been involved in analyses of "cheapest-only" policies and they absolutely save large amounts of money. They aren't short-sighted in the least. With very few exceptions, if a company doesn't have such a policy for domestic travel, then someone (or someones) are cheating the company out of money.
I've been involved in analyses of "cheapest-only" policies and they absolutely save large amounts of money. They aren't short-sighted in the least. With very few exceptions, if a company doesn't have such a policy for domestic travel, then someone (or someones) are cheating the company out of money.
Dec 10, 2014, 11:57 am
#59
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In an ideal world, no elites who are entitled to C+ would be unable to get a C+ seat. It's not an upgrade, just an enhanced bunch of seats in coach.
Dec 10, 2014, 12:09 pm
#60
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,731
What about children in restraints? Parents buy ticket (likely not even realizing that they can't select seats ahead of time), everyone gets assigned a middle seat. Child is in a restraint, FAA says the restraint cannot block anyone's exist. Therefore they restraint must go in the window seat or in the middle with the window seat open.
FAA says the restraint must be accommodated in the class booked. So no, Delta cannot tell a parent, oh well, can't use it.
ETA: the only exception for accommodation for car seats is in First under certain provisions and seat belts with airbags. So no, Delta cannot force a family to pay up so they can be guaranteed seats together if they travel with a car seat in economy.
FAA says the restraint must be accommodated in the class booked. So no, Delta cannot tell a parent, oh well, can't use it.
ETA: the only exception for accommodation for car seats is in First under certain provisions and seat belts with airbags. So no, Delta cannot force a family to pay up so they can be guaranteed seats together if they travel with a car seat in economy.