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2 questions - why not LAS-HNL and LAS-RNO Nonstop -BRING BACK Western Airline Routes!

2 questions - why not LAS-HNL and LAS-RNO Nonstop -BRING BACK Western Airline Routes!

Old Oct 26, 14, 8:19 pm
  #1  
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2 questions - why not LAS-HNL and LAS-RNO Nonstop -BRING BACK Western Airline Routes!

Why does DL not look outside the box. Two routes I believe could make money. LAS-HNL and LAS-RNO.

I know the HNL flt would be full. Go to downtown LAS. Half the people visiting are from Hawaii. Go to the California, Fremont or Main Street Station Hotel/Casinos 80-90% are from Hawaii. (I know many fly in on the 3 weekly 767 charter flts by Boyd Gaming), but other airlines do it every day. If these flt's were losers these carriers would not fly them.

Of people moving to Nevada from within the U.S. borders, the counties with the biggest numbers are Los Angeles, San Diego, San Bernardino and Orange counties in California and the Arizona county with Phoenix. The next highest is Honolulu County in Hawaii.

The migration between Hawaii and Las Vegas has been high since at least the 1990s with Las Vegas earning the nickname of being the ninth Hawaiian island, Lang said. The climate and tourist economies seem to be the strong ties, he said. Source: http://archive.rgj.com/article/20140...ant-population
As for Reno - WN flies non-stop around 10 times a day. That's it. Allegiant flies one flt non-stop twice a week (FRI/SUN). WN gets around $100 per seat if book early. They never put these flts on sale fares, because they own the market. Last minute $200+.

80% of the State of Nevada live in Clark County (Las Vegas), yet the State Capitol is in Carson City (nearest major airport is RNO). Many of the Government officials fly back and forth weekly. Many, I am sure would buy a FC seat, which WN does not offer.

Why does DL (or UA or AA) not fly 3 flts a day? WN makes it work. Why not the major carriers? Use an RJ with FC.

Perhaps the folks making decisions in ATL need to know the World does not revolve around ATL, although when I die my body will make a connection in ATL.

Happy travels.
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Old Oct 26, 14, 8:29 pm
  #2  
 
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- you need airport slots to carry out flights
- you need planes to carry out the flights. Without proven increased revenue on the route, why pull an existing route to put the plane on a new route
- the migration from Hawaii is most likely caused by people looking for work and a lower cost of living. These people will most likely not fly back and forth between LAS and Hawaii.
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Old Oct 26, 14, 8:52 pm
  #3  
 
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Originally Posted by kettle1 View Post
Many of the Government officials fly back and forth weekly. Many, I am sure would buy a FC seat, which WN does not offer.
State government officials won't be buying FC.
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Old Oct 26, 14, 8:54 pm
  #4  
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Hawaiian already flies LAS-HNL. It's a leisure route. Why would DL fly the route when neither HNL or LAS are DL hubs?
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Old Oct 26, 14, 8:57 pm
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Originally Posted by SFO777 View Post
Hawaiian already flies LAS-HNL. It's a leisure route. Why would DL fly the route when neither HNL or LAS are DL hubs?
Yeah, I agree. With so many daily LAX-HNL flights and a 45 minute LAS-LAX hop, I see NO point.
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Old Oct 26, 14, 9:03 pm
  #6  
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Sorry on my title. I know Western did not fly the routes I listed. I think DL could make money on both routes. DL is very weak on the west coast / west coast travel. If WN runs 10 737's a day LAS-RNO - DL could add 3 RJ's. DL could also add 1 flt a day LAS-HNL. Western and DL did fly LAX-FAT-RNO and LAX-RNO with full meal service in FC.

Times change.

I know HNL-LAS is a leisure route, but if the other carriers are making $$$, why not DL?
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Old Oct 26, 14, 9:33 pm
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Originally Posted by kettle1 View Post

I know HNL-LAS is a leisure route, but if the other carriers are making $$$, why not DL?
There are multiple daily HNL-LAS flights on HA A330s and 767s.

DL couldn't compete with HA on frequency (choice of morning, afternoon or overnight flights back or forth) or on service (HA provides a hot meal even on those short 5 hour flights, DL gives absolutely nothing even on 10+ hour flights such as HNL-ATL).

So, DL just isn't able to compete with HA, as its brand recognition is poor (it's not NWA anymore, and regardless in HI everyone thinks of HA first), its service is subpar (at least in Y), and it would need to have at least several daily flights to compete with HA on frequency and to allow for a choice of arrival and departure times. Also, even though HawaiianMiles is a horrible program with truly horrendous redemption rates (it's always been my nigtmare that DL SlyMiles may devolve into something that bad given enough time), most of the pax on the route will value earning HM a lot more than DL SM, since they get HM through their credit cards, bank relationships, grocery shopping, and countless other channels already.

HA and DL seem to agree not to compete on more routes than they compete on. E.g. HA left HNL-FUK to DL and DL alone and cancelled that route a few months ago. DL has chosen not to compete with HA on HNL-SDJ or CTS-HNL, though it easily could given the demand that is there.
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Old Oct 26, 14, 9:43 pm
  #8  
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You can buy a one-way ticket on LAS-HNL for tomorrow for less than $250. Yeah, that requires a connection, but it speaks to how lousy the yields are on flights to Hawaii. DL can let HA chase that market.

As for RNO-LAS... I have zero idea why DL would want to bother, though the yields do look to be better than LAS-HNL.
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Old Oct 27, 14, 9:28 am
  #9  
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Originally Posted by kettle1 View Post
Why does DL not look outside the box. Two routes I believe could make money. LAS-HNL and LAS-RNO.

I know the HNL flt would be full. Go to downtown LAS. Half the people visiting are from Hawaii. Go to the California, Fremont or Main Street Station Hotel/Casinos 80-90% are from Hawaii. (I know many fly in on the 3 weekly 767 charter flts by Boyd Gaming), but other airlines do it every day. If these flt's were losers these carriers would not fly them.



As for Reno - WN flies non-stop around 10 times a day. That's it. Allegiant flies one flt non-stop twice a week (FRI/SUN). WN gets around $100 per seat if book early. They never put these flts on sale fares, because they own the market. Last minute $200+.

80% of the State of Nevada live in Clark County (Las Vegas), yet the State Capitol is in Carson City (nearest major airport is RNO). Many of the Government officials fly back and forth weekly. Many, I am sure would buy a FC seat, which WN does not offer.

Why does DL (or UA or AA) not fly 3 flts a day? WN makes it work. Why not the major carriers? Use an RJ with FC.

Perhaps the folks making decisions in ATL need to know the World does not revolve around ATL, although when I die my body will make a connection in ATL.

Happy travels.
DL does not want the sort of customers who would go to those casinos.
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Old Oct 27, 14, 9:34 am
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I live in RNO half the year and would love to see a DL option to LAS since right now the only options are to SLC and SEA (on Alaska) to really connect anywhere useful. WN is always full.
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Old Oct 27, 14, 9:45 am
  #11  
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Leisure routes generally aren't very profitable.

If WN has the RNO-LAS route well established, chances are that they ahve the state government contract and DL would need to seriously underbid to have any chance of getting it. I don't see DL being eager to start a new route that WN already serves well and frequently. A combination of state government and leisure travel doesn't sound like much of a profit opportunity.
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Old Oct 27, 14, 10:36 am
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Originally Posted by HongKonger View Post
DL does not want the sort of customers who would go to those casinos.
OK, best laugh of my afternoon.

I mean, why the hell doesn't Delta fly AMS-LAS. Grrrrr.

edit to add : yeah, yeah, I know... Arke flies the route (sometimes).
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Old Oct 27, 14, 11:25 am
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Boyd gaming charters a daily 767 or 777 from HNL to LAS to bring island gamblers. Allegiant flies it 3-5 times per week depending on time of year. That doesn't bode well for yields.
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Old Oct 27, 14, 1:52 pm
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I fly the LAS/RNO route on WN and although I see WN filling up the planes I never looked how many leave the terminal with me or they stay on/connect to the next destination. I do however like the early morning flight which gets me to Reno about 7:30, have some breakfast, meet with the customer, then whenever the meeting is over grab the next plane down south. Although for this it wasn't cheap - i don't usually have the option of the WGA fare cause I never know when a meeting will pop-up.

I wouldn't mind having DL since I've got the status but I don't see it being profitable for them.
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