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Old Mar 25, 2014 | 9:19 pm
  #16  
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I can provide more details later, but, in summary, the pax in 1D and 1B essentially confirmed my story to the other officer and the captain.

I am mostly wondering if this approach is becoming a thing because FAs have learned that "shoot the messenger" gets them out of trouble for missteps they think they might have committed.
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Old Mar 25, 2014 | 9:29 pm
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Originally Posted by jwlowry
I can provide more details later, but, in summary, the pax in 1D and 1B essentially confirmed my story to the other officer and the captain.

I am mostly wondering if this approach is becoming a thing because FAs have learned that "shoot the messenger" gets them out of trouble for missteps they think they might have committed.
Thanks for the update. Did you by chance see where the drunk was sitting? You should definitely write in to DL with a concise complaint how StayingHomeIsBetter mentioned (especially noting the embarassment to you by being escorted off the plane by police). I think it's ridiculous that they retaliated against the person complaining and not the drunk person throwing up in the lav and stealing food. We weren't there and it's possible that the way you confronted the FA might have had something to do with their response, but even so I don't think what they did was justified.

It'd be great if you can come back here with what you send to DL, and what they come back with for a response.
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Old Mar 25, 2014 | 9:52 pm
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Originally Posted by jwlowry
I can provide more details later, but, in summary, the pax in 1D and 1B essentially confirmed my story to the other officer and the captain.

I am mostly wondering if this approach is becoming a thing because FAs have learned that "shoot the messenger" gets them out of trouble for missteps they think they might have committed.
Just curious... did the Captain apologize for what you had been put through?
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Old Mar 26, 2014 | 2:56 am
  #19  
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Since bubba is late chiming in, I'll do the honors: DL is perfect and makes no mistakes. You are clearly a gamer. WFBF! You should be thankful for this enhancement! You will be charged a "Diamond Elite police escort" fee, payable only with AMEX.
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Old Mar 26, 2014 | 3:20 am
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Originally Posted by florin
Since bubba is late chiming in, I'll do the honors: DL is perfect and makes no mistakes. You are clearly a gamer. WFBF! You should be thankful for this enhancement! You will be charged a "Diamond Elite police escort" fee, payable only with AMEX.
Nice Going. Now you've stolen Bubba's thunder!

And it is quite remarkable that none of the four primary Delta apologists have have graced us with their presence.
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Old Mar 26, 2014 | 7:54 am
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Originally Posted by roknroll
I think it's ridiculous that they retaliated against the person complaining and not the drunk person throwing up in the lav . . .
If you need to vomit, where else but the lavatory would be the right place?

According to the OP, the person vomited in the lav, not all over the lav. He noted he could smell vomit, but never mentioned seeing vomit, so I assume the drunk person got sick in the toilet.
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Old Mar 26, 2014 | 8:04 am
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Originally Posted by telloh
If you need to vomit, where else but the lavatory would be the right place?

According to the OP, the person vomited in the lav, not all over the lav. He noted he could smell vomit, but never mentioned seeing vomit, so I assume the drunk person got sick in the toilet.
According to the story, the drunk passenger first went to the F galley and took some snacks. Then went into the lav and apparently threw up. I agree that the lav is the correct place to go, but it seems that this person didn't initially need to throw up. Getting food is usually the last thing you want to do when you are about to spew.

I would probably be on the side of the drunk pax if they rushed up front and went straight to the lav, meaning they probably were on the verge of vomiting and that lav may have been the closest one (or the back ones were occupied).
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Old Mar 26, 2014 | 12:05 pm
  #23  
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Follow ups

Originally Posted by 53flyer
Any chance that there might be another side to this story? IBTL
Yes, the other side of the story is that I disrupted the flight. According to the police, the FA told them that I yelled at him (which is true, since he said he was having trouble hearing me) and that I repeatedly pressed the FA call button (which I had to do twice, since he walked away without addressing my complaint the first time). This, apparently, constitutes flight disruption.

Looking back on the incident, there are two things that I can think of that might have made the FA defensive. The first is when I raised my voice in the aisle when he asked me to repeat myself. The second is, during our first conversation, he asked me what I expected him to do and I replied, "Something." That is when he walked away. I also think he didn't like the fact that I was detailing a whole list of things that had occurred in the front of the plane while he was chatting with the other FAs in the back. He probably inferred that I was criticizing him for not attending to the pax in F, which I kind of was.
Originally Posted by emrdoc
What exactly was your goal in talking with the FA?
To let the FA know that there was a pax that was falling down drunk who had ralphed in the F lav. I might have also mentioned to the FA that Drunk Guy took the snacks, which, by the way, he didn't eat. According to the pax in 1B, the drunk guy saw the snack basket sitting on the counter, helped himself to some of what was in the basket, and stuffed the booty in his pockets.
Originally Posted by readywhenyouare
These flight attendants should have to reimburse the airport authority/city of Grand Rapids for wasting police services.
The other officer, the one who interviewed the flight crew and the other pax, was NOT happy. However, there was no discussion of citing the FA. In fact, it was the lack of response toward the FA's behavior that led me to start this thread. To wit, if an FA thinks he or she is in trouble for behaving badly on a flight, can they automatically get away with it by manufacturing a "flight disruption" so their original behavior is not scrutinized? If so, I would expect to see the number of similar incidents increase as more FAs realize they can get away with it.
Originally Posted by roknroll
Thanks for the update. Did you by chance see where the drunk was sitting? You should definitely write in to DL . . . It'd be great if you can come back here with what you send to DL, and what they come back with for a response.
I did see where he was sitting, I have written a complaint. I also reported the pax's identity and behavior to the police at GRR. Neither Delta nor the GRR police seem interested in pursuing action against anyone at this point. This leads me to question whether what the FA did is a sound strategy to avoid scrutiny for their own misdeeds.
Originally Posted by StayingHomeIsBetter
Just curious... did the Captain apologize for what you had been put through?
The captain did not approach me afterward. The police officer that interviewed the flight crew escorted the crew to the exit while the other police officer and sergeant were answering some of my questions.
Originally Posted by telloh
If you need to vomit, where else but the lavatory would be the right place? According to the OP, the person vomited in the lav, not all over the lav. He noted he could smell vomit, but never mentioned seeing vomit, so I assume the drunk person got sick in the toilet.
I did not actually see any vomit. The smell was enough to turn me back. I don't do well with the smell of vomit. Kind of like Chunk's prank in the movie Goonies.

Last edited by jwlowry; Mar 26, 2014 at 1:28 pm
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Old Mar 26, 2014 | 12:50 pm
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Originally Posted by jwlowry
I also think he didn't like the fact that I was detailing a whole list of things that had occurred in the front of the plane while he was chatting with the other FAs in the back. He probably inferred that I was criticizing him for not attending to the pax in F, which I kind of was.
I thinks it's a pretty good bet that DL's service procedures prohibit the F cabin from not being attended to for a period of time.

If you'd like something with a little more teeth, DL's Operations Specifications, filed by DL and approved by the FAA, probably do not allow the forward galley to be unoccupied for a period of time.

How else could they keep the Y riff-raff in the back?
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Old Mar 26, 2014 | 1:58 pm
  #25  
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Originally Posted by N965VJ
...

If you'd like something with a little more teeth, DL's Operations Specifications, filed by DL and approved by the FAA, probably do not allow the forward galley to be unoccupied for a period of time.

...
If so, that is likely one of the more frequently disregarded specifications. Especially on late-night flights.
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Old Mar 26, 2014 | 2:27 pm
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I've seen news stories and net reports of FAs doing this without cause.


Originally Posted by jwlowry
Yes, the other side of the story is that I disrupted the flight. According to the police, the FA told them that I yelled at him (which is true, since he said he was having trouble hearing me) and that I repeatedly pressed the FA call button (which I had to do twice, since he walked away without addressing my complaint the first time). This, apparently, constitutes flight disruption.
...
In your defense, I would point out that raising one's voice - at his request, basically, as he stated he couldn't hear you - is not the same as yelling at him. (It's almost like he was trying to set up a claim against you....)


As for the "pressing the call button" allegation, what a reach.

I would be interested to know what crimes the FA might have committed by making this false report (other than making a false report). Interference with gvt operations, harassment....

I hope you got his name.

Good luck with the Delta complaint. I'm interested to see how they handle this.
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Old Mar 26, 2014 | 2:39 pm
  #27  
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Is it possible the lead FA's being in the back talking to the Y FAs had something to do with the drunk i.e., they were telling him about it and deciding what to do? Or was it just negligence on his part?
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Old Mar 26, 2014 | 6:19 pm
  #28  
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I hope the OP keeps us posted on what happens. Kind of lost my appetite for dinner.
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Old Mar 26, 2014 | 8:50 pm
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Originally Posted by jwlowry
Flying ATL-GRR a couple of weeks ago in F - seat 1C on an Airbus 320. About an hour into the 110 minute flight, a pax from coach stumbles up into the first class galley, helps himself to some snacks (the in-flight lead is in the back chatting with the other FAs). The pax then goes into the F lav. About five minutes later, the guy stumbles out and I stood up so that I could take my turn in the lav. The guy fell into me, knocking my head against the overhead bin. He reeked of alcohol and smelled like vomit. Uninjured, I pushed him away and he made his way back to coach. I opened the lav door and it, too, reeked of vomit.

Disgusted, I went to the back of the plane, passing the in-flight lead on his way back up front. I told him that I wanted to chat when I got back to my seat. After having taken care of business in the rear lav, I headed back up to my seat and rang the FA call button as I sat down. The in-flight lead approached and I explained to him what had happened. He became very defensive and walked back to the galley.

I rang the call button again and this time, the FA waited until another flight attendant came up to F. The in-flight lead then explained to me that he did not feel comfortable dealing with this situation and informed those of us in F that the other flight attendant would be completing our service. I asked the new FA if a report would be prepared to document the situation. She also was very defensive and refused to engage me in any conversation.

Once the flight terminated, two police officers and a sergeant met the flight and one of the officers and the sergeant escorted me from the plane and attempted to question me about disrupting the flight. I didn't answer any questions and within five minutes, I was told that I was free to go.

Now, I'm not new to this rodeo, but this behavior seems pretty extreme to me. It seems as though the FAs were maybe worried about being accused of over-serving the coach pax and decided to make the issue about me instead, but I am confident that I did nothing that could even be remotely described as disrupting the flight. However, I have seen situations where FAs behaving badly have pulled this kind of shena in order to deflect blame from their own missteps. My experience is only anecdotal, but I have seen this kind of thing happen maybe five times in as many years. I know flight crews have a lot of leeway these days in how they treat people, but false reporting behavior as criminal to avoid scrutiny for their own actions seems way over the line. I would hope there would be controls in place to prevent these situations. Anyone else see this kind of thing happening?
Curious why you would not have answered the officers' questions. Your story seems compelling and one would think you would want to relate it in your defense.
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Old Mar 26, 2014 | 8:51 pm
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Sorry for quoting the entire OP.
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