Delta to reduce availability of lower cost international business fares
Mar 5, 2014, 9:58 am
#16
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Wouldn't even need to be mainline F style seats. The F seats in CRJ700 and CRJ900s aren't quite as big but would still be great for a long haul flight compared to standard Y.
Mar 5, 2014, 10:00 am
#17
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 142
Look at that. A DL-apologist showed up.
Consolidation is NOT necessary. Look at Europe where they have 4 TIMES AS MANY AIRLINES! Not to mention the competition the numerous HighSpeed Rail operators provide.
Europe: 57 airlines!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ines_in_Europe
North America: 15 airlines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._North_America
Consolidation is NOT necessary. Look at Europe where they have 4 TIMES AS MANY AIRLINES! Not to mention the competition the numerous HighSpeed Rail operators provide.
Europe: 57 airlines!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ines_in_Europe
North America: 15 airlines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._North_America
Mar 5, 2014, 10:01 am
#18
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What makes you think that many of Delta's most HVC's don't buy international coach tickets? I don't think it's even debatable that last-minute coach fares are more profitable than deeply discounted BE fares.
Those lists are not comparable, there are airlines in North America much bigger not on that list than some of the European airlines that are on that list. Also note that they count Turkey as being European (which I'm not saying is wrong, but should be footnoted).
Certain carriers? Only one carrier in the United States has been consistently profitable for more than a few years.
The reality is that other than Southwest Airlines no other airline in the United States has proven that their business model is sustainable over time, so while this doesn't prove that consolidation has worked to improve the industry as a whole, by the same token I don't think anyone can say definitively consolidation has not worked.
Consolidation is NOT necessary. Look at Europe where they have 4 TIMES AS MANY AIRLINES! Not to mention the competition the numerous HighSpeed Rail operators provide.
Europe: 57 airlines!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ines_in_Europe
North America: 15 airlines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._North_America
Europe: 57 airlines!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ines_in_Europe
North America: 15 airlines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._North_America
I keep hearing that, until recently, the airline industry as a whole never earned a return on its invested capital, lost untold billions of dollars, etc. This I don't doubt.
Yet during this time, planes kept being purchased, fleets grew, passengers carried and miles flown increased, safety improved, and certain carriers were consistently profitable.
Yet during this time, planes kept being purchased, fleets grew, passengers carried and miles flown increased, safety improved, and certain carriers were consistently profitable.
The reality is that other than Southwest Airlines no other airline in the United States has proven that their business model is sustainable over time, so while this doesn't prove that consolidation has worked to improve the industry as a whole, by the same token I don't think anyone can say definitively consolidation has not worked.
Mar 5, 2014, 10:21 am
#19
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No. As unpleasant as some of the changes at DL have been, it would only be worse if the government were running the show. The US government rarely does anything well. Some of us prefer that the government stays out of our lives as much as possible.
Mar 5, 2014, 10:40 am
#20
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Just saying that the value proposition isn't mutually beneficial. Maybe I am wrong and this isn't planet Earth, but I am almost certain that HVCs would rather buy BE than Coach for their buck, and DL seems to be reducing that choice, for their own benefit.
Not saying they shouldn't (they're a business for profit and all), but rather that the alleged HVCs on these Delta boards, buying celebratory rounds for eachother, need to be aware that according to what seems to be the plan, these HVCs will be sitting in the Economy Class seats that the Low Value riffraff are leaving behind!
Mar 5, 2014, 10:43 am
#21
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Location: Berlin, Germany
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Interesting question. The TATL business fares ex Eu are actually set by AF/KL, not DL. I can't imaging that this will change, taking away the ability to react to BA/LH C class sales.
Mar 5, 2014, 10:49 am
#22
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While the fares may be set by AF/KL, who sets the availability of fare buckets? My understanding is that much of what is being talked about here is availability between fare buckets more so than the fares themselves. In other words there are going to be the same deeply discounted BE fares published, but availability of such fares will be much harder to actually find on flights.
Mar 5, 2014, 10:52 am
#23
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Europe: 57 airlines!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ines_in_Europe
North America: 15 airlines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._North_America
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ines_in_Europe
North America: 15 airlines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._North_America
Mar 5, 2014, 10:53 am
#24
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Berlin, Germany
Programs: DL DM/2MM, UA PE, HH Gold
Posts: 1,080
While the fares may be set by AF/KL, who sets the availability of fare buckets? My understanding is that much of what is being talked about here is availability between fare buckets more so than the fares themselves. In other words there are going to be the same deeply discounted BE fares published, but availability of such fares will be much harder to actually find on flights.
Mar 5, 2014, 11:01 am
#25
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Atlanta, Malaga
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Posts: 124
This anti government Tea Party rhetoric is the reason we have the worst service these days in the US as big business can do whatever they want. You do realize Delta get goverment handouts left right and center like all US airlines and in return offer worse service and higher prices than European airlines. Why is it such a problem to regulate us airlines yet ok to subsidize them?
Mar 5, 2014, 11:12 am
#26
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This anti government Tea Party rhetoric is the reason we have the worst service these days in the US as big business can do whatever they want. You do realize Delta get goverment handouts left right and center like all US airlines and in return offer worse service and higher prices than European airlines. Why is it such a problem to regulate us airlines yet ok to subsidize them?
Mar 5, 2014, 11:22 am
#27
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Mar 5, 2014, 11:32 am
#28
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Mar 5, 2014, 11:35 am
#29
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Super-expensive J + Super-uncomfortable Y (including EC) is pushing me to W for INTL travel now.
Mar 5, 2014, 11:55 am
#30
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You really don't think Delta will do this in the next year or two?
They are all about squeezing every penny out of a flight now. This would only make sense.
(They would have gone 7 across in the 777-900s if they could figure out how to go without the center aisle.)
They are all about squeezing every penny out of a flight now. This would only make sense.
(They would have gone 7 across in the 777-900s if they could figure out how to go without the center aisle.)