Loyalty is a 2-way street GA refuses to put DM on standby list
Apr 14, 2013, 4:44 am
#31
Join Date: Mar 2012
Programs: SkyMiles, OnePass, MileagePlus
Posts: 88
I know this isnt a passengers concern and shouldnt be. However, gate agents are under a lot of pressure to get a flight boarded and out on time. The real pressure is that there is typically one or two gate agents for over 100-150 passengers plus standby passengers. The company policies that are confusing to passengers are just as confusing to gate agents. There are so many nuances that it is hard especially under pressure to handle so much.
A gate agent makes little more than minimum wage. Normally 9-10 bucks an hour topping out no higher than about 20 an hour after many years in the company. Many at Delta are part time.
It is a high turnover job especially at regional vendors.
Gate agents face abuse from passengers for things that agents have no control over. A gate agent can almost never delay a flight on their own accord. Most delays are caused by things beyond their control. Often times, the company doesnt keep them well informed about why there is a delay. They are stuck dealing with angry passengers that have been bumped off flights. The agents themselves dont oversell flights and have no control over if a flight is overbooked.
Like any job there are bad eggs. In my experience though, gate agents try their hardest to accomodate everyone in a time critical environment.
Airline passengers want to pay the cheapest coach fare for first class service. The cost for cheaper fares is that airline employees work for less money than they used to. When you pay minimum wage, you will always attract a certain amount of minimum wage attitudes.
Your flight attendant may make even less than the gate agent. Regionals pay 10K-15K per year for flight attendants. Majors arent that much better. Flight attendants have to put up with similar attitudes that gate agents have and likewise they usually have no fault in a delay or company policies.
For many agents, I think the stress of the job gets to them. Some are very good at dealing with it while others are not.
I think that a major issue is partly passenger status and airport experience. The airports are set up with overagressive TSA agents, crowded gate areas in a confined environment. I can see people acting out in this environment. Then you have passengers that are the DYKWIA types. For them, flying and getting upset publicly is all about making themselves look important and superior.
In the so-called glory days of aviation, passengers were different. Flights werent routinely at 100% capacity so upgrades and standby werent as much of an issue. Airlines flew large widebodied planes on routes that now they have maybe a B737 if you are lucky. For passengers, flying was a privilege and somewhat of a novelty. Airline workers were much better compensated and overall service and the flying experience were much better.
I think now passengers want everything they had before but are unwilling to pay it and the economic realities force airlines to compete in a high cost business where previously they had both low fuel prices and govt regulation to back them up.
A gate agent makes little more than minimum wage. Normally 9-10 bucks an hour topping out no higher than about 20 an hour after many years in the company. Many at Delta are part time.
It is a high turnover job especially at regional vendors.
Gate agents face abuse from passengers for things that agents have no control over. A gate agent can almost never delay a flight on their own accord. Most delays are caused by things beyond their control. Often times, the company doesnt keep them well informed about why there is a delay. They are stuck dealing with angry passengers that have been bumped off flights. The agents themselves dont oversell flights and have no control over if a flight is overbooked.
Like any job there are bad eggs. In my experience though, gate agents try their hardest to accomodate everyone in a time critical environment.
Airline passengers want to pay the cheapest coach fare for first class service. The cost for cheaper fares is that airline employees work for less money than they used to. When you pay minimum wage, you will always attract a certain amount of minimum wage attitudes.
Your flight attendant may make even less than the gate agent. Regionals pay 10K-15K per year for flight attendants. Majors arent that much better. Flight attendants have to put up with similar attitudes that gate agents have and likewise they usually have no fault in a delay or company policies.
For many agents, I think the stress of the job gets to them. Some are very good at dealing with it while others are not.
I think that a major issue is partly passenger status and airport experience. The airports are set up with overagressive TSA agents, crowded gate areas in a confined environment. I can see people acting out in this environment. Then you have passengers that are the DYKWIA types. For them, flying and getting upset publicly is all about making themselves look important and superior.
In the so-called glory days of aviation, passengers were different. Flights werent routinely at 100% capacity so upgrades and standby werent as much of an issue. Airlines flew large widebodied planes on routes that now they have maybe a B737 if you are lucky. For passengers, flying was a privilege and somewhat of a novelty. Airline workers were much better compensated and overall service and the flying experience were much better.
I think now passengers want everything they had before but are unwilling to pay it and the economic realities force airlines to compete in a high cost business where previously they had both low fuel prices and govt regulation to back them up.
Apr 14, 2013, 5:08 am
#32
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,427
And...that leads to inconsistent service. I've heard it said..."Inconsistentcy is great when it benefits me...but, something I need to complain about and get comp'd for when it doesn't."
Apr 14, 2013, 6:04 am
#33
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: DL FO, UA, AA, AsiaMiles, SPG, HHonors
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I know this isnt a passengers concern and shouldnt be. However, gate agents are under a lot of pressure to get a flight boarded and out on time. The real pressure is that there is typically one or two gate agents for over 100-150 passengers plus standby passengers. The company policies that are confusing to passengers are just as confusing to gate agents. There are so many nuances that it is hard especially under pressure to handle so much.
A gate agent makes little more than minimum wage. Normally 9-10 bucks an hour topping out no higher than about 20 an hour after many years in the company. Many at Delta are part time.
It is a high turnover job especially at regional vendors.
Gate agents face abuse from passengers for things that agents have no control over. A gate agent can almost never delay a flight on their own accord. Most delays are caused by things beyond their control. Often times, the company doesnt keep them well informed about why there is a delay. They are stuck dealing with angry passengers that have been bumped off flights. The agents themselves dont oversell flights and have no control over if a flight is overbooked.
Like any job there are bad eggs. In my experience though, gate agents try their hardest to accomodate everyone in a time critical environment.
Airline passengers want to pay the cheapest coach fare for first class service. The cost for cheaper fares is that airline employees work for less money than they used to. When you pay minimum wage, you will always attract a certain amount of minimum wage attitudes.
Your flight attendant may make even less than the gate agent. Regionals pay 10K-15K per year for flight attendants. Majors arent that much better. Flight attendants have to put up with similar attitudes that gate agents have and likewise they usually have no fault in a delay or company policies.
For many agents, I think the stress of the job gets to them. Some are very good at dealing with it while others are not.
I think that a major issue is partly passenger status and airport experience. The airports are set up with overagressive TSA agents, crowded gate areas in a confined environment. I can see people acting out in this environment. Then you have passengers that are the DYKWIA types. For them, flying and getting upset publicly is all about making themselves look important and superior.
In the so-called glory days of aviation, passengers were different. Flights werent routinely at 100% capacity so upgrades and standby werent as much of an issue. Airlines flew large widebodied planes on routes that now they have maybe a B737 if you are lucky. For passengers, flying was a privilege and somewhat of a novelty. Airline workers were much better compensated and overall service and the flying experience were much better.
I think now passengers want everything they had before but are unwilling to pay it and the economic realities force airlines to compete in a high cost business where previously they had both low fuel prices and govt regulation to back them up.
A gate agent makes little more than minimum wage. Normally 9-10 bucks an hour topping out no higher than about 20 an hour after many years in the company. Many at Delta are part time.
It is a high turnover job especially at regional vendors.
Gate agents face abuse from passengers for things that agents have no control over. A gate agent can almost never delay a flight on their own accord. Most delays are caused by things beyond their control. Often times, the company doesnt keep them well informed about why there is a delay. They are stuck dealing with angry passengers that have been bumped off flights. The agents themselves dont oversell flights and have no control over if a flight is overbooked.
Like any job there are bad eggs. In my experience though, gate agents try their hardest to accomodate everyone in a time critical environment.
Airline passengers want to pay the cheapest coach fare for first class service. The cost for cheaper fares is that airline employees work for less money than they used to. When you pay minimum wage, you will always attract a certain amount of minimum wage attitudes.
Your flight attendant may make even less than the gate agent. Regionals pay 10K-15K per year for flight attendants. Majors arent that much better. Flight attendants have to put up with similar attitudes that gate agents have and likewise they usually have no fault in a delay or company policies.
For many agents, I think the stress of the job gets to them. Some are very good at dealing with it while others are not.
I think that a major issue is partly passenger status and airport experience. The airports are set up with overagressive TSA agents, crowded gate areas in a confined environment. I can see people acting out in this environment. Then you have passengers that are the DYKWIA types. For them, flying and getting upset publicly is all about making themselves look important and superior.
In the so-called glory days of aviation, passengers were different. Flights werent routinely at 100% capacity so upgrades and standby werent as much of an issue. Airlines flew large widebodied planes on routes that now they have maybe a B737 if you are lucky. For passengers, flying was a privilege and somewhat of a novelty. Airline workers were much better compensated and overall service and the flying experience were much better.
I think now passengers want everything they had before but are unwilling to pay it and the economic realities force airlines to compete in a high cost business where previously they had both low fuel prices and govt regulation to back them up.
Break up and re-regulate the airlines I say. And bring back Pan Am!
Apr 14, 2013, 6:22 am
#34
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From the COC:
RULE 141: VOLUNTARY STANDBY TRAVEL
Voluntary standby travel is prohibited unless allowed by the rules of the fare purchased. When standby is permitted, the following provisions apply:
A) Coach Voluntary Standby Travel
• Delta reserves the right to discontinue accepting and placing passengers on the airport standby list based on local and/or system operational requirements.
• Delta reserves the right to limit the number of passengers on the airport standby list or change the rules of the coach voluntary standby program at any time without notice.
RULE 141: VOLUNTARY STANDBY TRAVEL
Voluntary standby travel is prohibited unless allowed by the rules of the fare purchased. When standby is permitted, the following provisions apply:
A) Coach Voluntary Standby Travel
• Delta reserves the right to discontinue accepting and placing passengers on the airport standby list based on local and/or system operational requirements.
• Delta reserves the right to limit the number of passengers on the airport standby list or change the rules of the coach voluntary standby program at any time without notice.
Apr 14, 2013, 6:35 am
#35
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,059
Now that the new rules emphasize SDS over SDC, this is scary. It sounds like a request to do SDS could be denied at any time for any reason, including having a lot of NRSAs already on the list. Shena here we come. What's the point of elite status priority if GAs can prevent people from being added to the standby list when they would have been at the top of the list?
Apr 14, 2013, 6:41 am
#36
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Posts: 100,413
Oh please, did you miss the "based on operational requirements" part? Does everything have to be a conspiracy around here? Yes, there have been some agents who have sometimes helped out their fellow employees ahead of pax? Buy, by and large, I think that most understand that the passengers come first. To suggest that GA's are denying pax stand-by listing willy-nilly in order to get to get their buddies on the flight is beyond silly.
Apr 14, 2013, 8:13 am
#37
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Programs: Delta Million Miler and Diamond, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 132
Flying ATL-LGA this morning. I was talking with the GA about her improper management of the upgrade list (another story). A DM walks up at 20 minutes prior and asks to be put on the standby list. GA asks him to look at the already long list (20+names) and says she will be full since the list is long and there are only 2 seats left. DM asks to be put on the list because he believes he will be near the top. GA tells him "is that fair to all these other people 15 minutes prior to departure?" She refused to put him on list. All I can say is wow!
If the DM (or other Medallion) was just confirmed on the flight (either a SDC or whatever), s/he is entitled to be placed on the upgrade list even that shortly before the flight, and "compete" with the rest of pax already on the list in the standard pecking order.
Apr 14, 2013, 8:16 am
#38
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In the OP, the DM was trying to change from some other flight to this one. It was a matter of standby to get a (coach) seat.
Apr 14, 2013, 8:27 am
#39
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Programs: Delta Million Miler and Diamond, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 132
Apr 14, 2013, 8:32 am
#40
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: LAX
Programs: DM
Posts: 1,067
Same thing happened to me.
LAX-ATL-DUS
DM flying on paid J. I get to Atlanta and and find my meeting in DUS is cancelled, so I walk over to the next LAX departure gate and wait for the GA to arrive. WHen I get there I ask her if I can stand by and she said no, that it checked in full already. I call the DM line and find that every flight is full until the next morning. They can't put me on standby on the next flight because its now-60 and under gate control, but they put me on stand by for the following flight and I get a seat there, last to board. After finishing up my phone call I walk back by the soon to be departing gate and notice there is a stand by list on the GIDS.
The one thing that gets me is when I flew UA, as a GS member there was guaranteed availability for GS. Sure it might be a middle seat but you didn't have to play the lottery. I don't know how they did it or if it involved denying boarding to others, but it was a great perk when you needed it.
LAX-ATL-DUS
DM flying on paid J. I get to Atlanta and and find my meeting in DUS is cancelled, so I walk over to the next LAX departure gate and wait for the GA to arrive. WHen I get there I ask her if I can stand by and she said no, that it checked in full already. I call the DM line and find that every flight is full until the next morning. They can't put me on standby on the next flight because its now-60 and under gate control, but they put me on stand by for the following flight and I get a seat there, last to board. After finishing up my phone call I walk back by the soon to be departing gate and notice there is a stand by list on the GIDS.
The one thing that gets me is when I flew UA, as a GS member there was guaranteed availability for GS. Sure it might be a middle seat but you didn't have to play the lottery. I don't know how they did it or if it involved denying boarding to others, but it was a great perk when you needed it.
Apr 14, 2013, 8:41 am
#41
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: 45° North
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For those who run into this, the kiosks at the service centers can add you to the SB list in most cases (though I don't know if there is a cutoff time). Scan your BP and then select the change flights option; any eligible SB flights will display.
Apr 14, 2013, 9:02 am
#42
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,427
The OP started this thread when a GA was observed telling a DM that he couldn't be added to the standby list because it already had twenty people and the GA didn't think it would be fair for the DM to go to the top of the list and get one of the two remaining seats on the flight. Sorry, but I don't consider the GA's personal opinions about what is fair, especially when acting accordingly contradicts published DL policies, to be an "operational requirement."
Apr 14, 2013, 9:18 am
#43
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I'm sorry...could you tell me, exactly, what the published DL policies as in "Sorry, but I don't consider the GA's personal opinions about what is fair, especially when acting accordingly contradicts published DL policies, to be an "operational requirement." are? The "published policy" i've been shown says...30mins or the cut-off time for the specific airport is the deadline to be added to the standby list.
Apr 14, 2013, 9:29 am
#44
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This is a heck of a lot of angst for an ATL-LGA flight.
Next month, I am flying on an M fare upgraded with SWUs.
My segments are:
TLV-JFK (11 hrs, 45 minutes). Upgraded.
JFK-LAS (5 hrs, 30 minutes). Upgraded.
LAS-ATL (3 hrs, 51 minutes). Upgraded.
ATL-JFK (2 hrs, 35 minutes). Put in Economy Comfort -- four seats left in FC.
JFK-TLV (10 hrs, 45 minutes). Upgraded.
Admittedly, I would be furious if I were moved to Y either TLV-JFK or JFK-TLV.
I would be very annoyed if I were put into Y JFK-LAS.
I would be somewhat bothered if I were moved to Y ATL-LAS.
But ATL-JFK? For 2 hrs, 35 minutes, I not only would not care at all if I don't get upgraded (and I expect not to) but I wouldn't even be bothered if I were moved to the last aisle seat on the plane. (Middle or window seats would bug me.)
I believe that somewhere on FlyerTalk there is a thread dedicated to "1st World Problems." This would definitely qualify as one.
Next month, I am flying on an M fare upgraded with SWUs.
My segments are:
TLV-JFK (11 hrs, 45 minutes). Upgraded.
JFK-LAS (5 hrs, 30 minutes). Upgraded.
LAS-ATL (3 hrs, 51 minutes). Upgraded.
ATL-JFK (2 hrs, 35 minutes). Put in Economy Comfort -- four seats left in FC.
JFK-TLV (10 hrs, 45 minutes). Upgraded.
Admittedly, I would be furious if I were moved to Y either TLV-JFK or JFK-TLV.
I would be very annoyed if I were put into Y JFK-LAS.
I would be somewhat bothered if I were moved to Y ATL-LAS.
But ATL-JFK? For 2 hrs, 35 minutes, I not only would not care at all if I don't get upgraded (and I expect not to) but I wouldn't even be bothered if I were moved to the last aisle seat on the plane. (Middle or window seats would bug me.)
I believe that somewhere on FlyerTalk there is a thread dedicated to "1st World Problems." This would definitely qualify as one.