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Originally Posted by pbarnette
(Post 20090200)
Who said they made a blunder? Their financial performance has been quite solid. I would offer that the only blunder they could be accused of making is not doing this sooner.
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Originally Posted by DontYouKnowWhoIAm
(Post 20092122)
The changes are bad for one reason: It becomes more expensive to fly. THAT is it. It is just a cab ride...that is all it is. The programs are a great way to mitigate some of your expense when you are forced to take a cab to work every week. It has nothing to do with being "elite". Being "Elite" because you can afford to take a flight (cab) to work WAS real about 30 years ago. Today there are maybe 2% of the entire US population who cant afford to fly.
I swear people here really believe we are in the 70's. Posters spouting: "Elite" status is for those who pay, if you cant afford it tough!" WHO cant afford it? My CAT can afford FC on Delta. It has nothing to do with being able to afford it., The opposite is the REAL issue: There are not enough seats for those willing to pay more to sit in them. The spread used to be thousands now it is hundreds or tens. Bottom line: The "elite" ranks are indeed swelled but those who think they will be "thinned" are completely lost in their own worlds. They wont be thinned because they were never elite including those who can pay $500 one way instead of $300 one way...NOBODY IS ELITE and it is JUST A FREAKING CAB RIDE. All I see this change doing is accelerating the transition to zero differentiation between airlines. The products are already fairly flat across the industry... no one carrier stands out much. This just reduces the incentives and makes me view it more as a flying bus. To be honest, the only true benefit I see from 'elite' status now is less wait on the phone line and better irop handling. Other than that, its like buying toilet paper. Some brand are a little softer than others, but in the end any that are on sale will do. |
So let me get this straight... If DL has flights that aren't filling up, they should sell fares for below cost and shower benefits on those who purchase the tickets???? It seems to make more sense to cut the flights. That seems to have been the strategy lately; fewer fuller flights.
Anecdotal evidence here - DL 1506 LAXDTW was booked with 29 empty seats yesterday. No 25K mile awards available, one way fare was 740.00. Today, looking at GIDS, there are over 100 seats available in Y on 1706 DTWLAX. Same thing on awards and fare. It is working out for them to stick with their pricing discipline as well. There was a day when these flights would be flooded with low fares....that improperly trains the customer on expectations. Same with the Elite program. This is DL's fault (and the lack of thought on the part of some "Elites" for falling for the marketing program so head-over-heels). The expectation is spend. You need to bring something to the table to play. Your butt in the seat isn't cutting it anymore. |
Memphis is at fault for DL cutting service by 49%???
If the demand was there, DL wouldn't be cutting. |
And there you have it. DL is selling a commodity product. There is no 'elite' when any kettle can take advantage of FCM for a little more and sit next to Mr. Big Shot who lives on a plane for 50wks/year. If anybody can buy a Ferrari then its not very special, is it?
If that is the case, why are so many upset on this thread over the financial requirement? Just pay the difference and be done with it. Why does it matter to you? |
Originally Posted by hazelrah
(Post 20092189)
They were handed 3 hubs with significant monpolistic concentration when they acquired NW. Arguably Delta's acquisition did not significantly alter this monpolitic concentration, but they would have had to be idiots not to make money.
The "monopolistic concentration" you speak of only applies to the home market. All three of those hubs have service far in excess of what the O/D supports. Accordingly, what is truly important is managing the overall capacity in the system, and that "monopolistic concentration" becomes relatively meaningless. This is why they cut Memphis and Cincinnati, for example, despite having "monopolistic concentration". |
Originally Posted by bubbashow
(Post 20092357)
If that is the case, why are so many upset on this thread over the financial requirement? Just pay the difference and be done with it. Why does it matter to you?
How quickly they've forgotten how things were only a few short years ago, and it comes across as giving those who stuck with DL a big middle finger and kick in the as$. They're also making the system overly complex for a commodity product. It also leads to the continued decline in 'elite' benefits. Do you really think there isn't another shoe to drop regarding redemption? |
Originally Posted by bubbashow
(Post 20092320)
So let me get this straight... If DL has flights that aren't filling up, they should sell fares for below cost and shower benefits on those who purchase the tickets???? It seems to make more sense to cut the flights. That seems to have been the strategy lately; fewer fuller flights.
Anecdotal evidence here - DL 1506 LAXDTW was booked with 29 empty seats yesterday. No 25K mile awards available, one way fare was 740.00. Today, looking at GIDS, there are over 100 seats available in Y on 1706 DTWLAX. Same thing on awards and fare. . And you think fare integrity (meaning not lowering the fare a bit) is better than allowing people to redeem miles and/or getting a few more butts in seats? Can we at least agree that DL is selling a perishable commodity? |
Originally Posted by pbarnette
(Post 20092004)
I'm pretty sure that rollover and MQDs address different issues. Rollover finds a way to reward those that fly more. MQDs ensure that those receiving benefits pay a reasonable amount for them. The two are not at all contradictory.
An unforced error now being fixed.
Originally Posted by pbarnette
(Post 20092077)
Memphis is poor and small and poorly situated relative to other potential hubs. DL made the only rational choice and Memphis's civic leaders did their constituents a disservice by pretending that their position as a hub was sustainable.
Originally Posted by pbarnette
(Post 20092004)
Expecting the terms not to change for years on end is naive.
DL could have raised MQM thresholds but would have been labeled an industry outlier. They could strangle award inventory. They can do any number of risky things within T&C terms that invite blowback. And never accept responsibility for designing an untenable business model. |
Originally Posted by Deltahater
(Post 20092149)
See, here is the problem. I never said that DL should not or could not change the program at any time. I am taking issue with your statement that it is the passenger's fault. Two very different issues no matter how much you want to make them one.
Originally Posted by Deltahater
(Post 20092149)
Here is an outsider without any proprietary market research data access (YOU) and you have determined that Memphis is "poor, small and poorly situated".
Originally Posted by Deltahater
(Post 20092149)
Yet, DL with all their research and access to data did not see it like this at all and promised that the int'l flight would stay and that there would be even more flights. Then, DL cuts service by 49%.
Originally Posted by Deltahater
(Post 20092149)
Delta has the right to change the program any way it sees fit. Delta also has the right to cut service when it wants to. But blaming the passengers and citizens for those decisions is just ridiculous.
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Originally Posted by bubbashow
(Post 20092320)
[B][I
If the demand was there, DL wouldn't be cutting. Secondly, Delta promised to grow the market and they cut it by 49% instead. Either deceiving or poor forecasting. The Memphis market did not just implode all of the sudden. |
Originally Posted by LegalTender
(Post 20092555)
They address the same issue: Medallion inflation instigated by rollovers bottling up the program and draining revenue.
Originally Posted by LegalTender
(Post 20092555)
Delta secured the vital backing of Memphis officials with assurances it would remain an integral hub of the new merged airline and might even have "more flights to the city." The number of flights dropped from 240 to 122, a 49 percent decline.
Originally Posted by LegalTender
(Post 20092555)
Same answer. Satisfying contract terms doesn't mean that trust isn't on the line.
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Passengers are at fault for not anticipating DL changing the terms of the program???
ABSOLUTELY! LOL. Anyone who didn't is foolish. The only people that are upset (and you can type whatever excuse you want of why I am wrong) are those that have been pulling the wool over DL's eyes for years and are finally going to have to pay to play. Period. Those thresholds are SOOOOOOO low, it is comical. |
Originally Posted by bubbashow
(Post 20092728)
The only people that are upset (and you can type whatever excuse you want of why I am wrong) are those that have been pulling the wool over DL's eyes for years and are finally going to have to pay to play.
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Originally Posted by rylan
(Post 20092756)
Well I wouldn't exactly call it pulling the will over DL's eyes. DL defined the program and qualification levels, and they allowed the accumulation of MQMs and piles of skypesos. It was necessary and helpful to their business when travel was down for a few years. Now airlines have pricing power and are in control, but I worry they are too quick to forget about those who were buying tickets and keeping them in business during tough times. It'll swing the other way again at some point and they'll be begging for pax to come back instead of not caring and only going after the big spender.
I get it that DL defined the rules - now they are changing them to something that makes more sense. And the low rev mileage runners will come back in droves for another change back and 700 fares to SIN. These people have no loyalty. They are trying to get something for nothing and will go to anyone to get it. I value my time....sure, I could go to AA, but then I am connecting everywhere I want to go besides LGA, MIA, DFW, and ORD. So some will status match and leave. Demand is stimulated with an E fare, plus fees and that low rev elite has been replaced with a Kettle. It works...look at Spirit's profit margin. They fill up plane after plane every day with junk fares, a ton of fees, and 189 hillbillies who don't know that their $29 fare just cost them $149 at the end of the day. They are not using up first class upgrades, priority security lines, banked-mileage bonuses, and free bags. |
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