Sabai

Until GA overhauled its safety program, that phrase also applied to the landing experience.

Xeno

That's what I've been doing but when I look closely it seems that there is less and less Z inventory on anything that would get me to HKG (with a long BE on flat beds).

adamj023

They still have to do NRT and HKG flights and it would depend on the data of how many seats are booked for ATL to HKG that actually wind up on connection flights. But even if they could fill planes with just ATL to HKG traffic, they would need to acquire appropriate aircraft, and work out a deal with Hong Kong for direct service.

If anyone did additional nonstop service @ Hong Kong my guess is it would be Hong Kong Airlines when they get their new deliveries in 2015 and some USA routes could be opened up.

Delta has no plans to order any additional long range aircraft as it is focused on strengthen its domestic and regional fleets for now. It is possible down the road Delta could desire expansion of long haul international, and procure more aircraft but to date that doesn't seem to be happening.

Just reporting what is going on based on publically available information. Behind the scenes a change could be implemented some day and Delta could surprise us with orders of long haul aircraft IF the market so demanded it. But connection flights while less convenient still seem to be more efficient and more common for routes to the longer distances.

Singapore at the end of 2013 will have A340-500 on the market with a really long range and the equipment is really nice. I really do hope another airline acquires those 5 planes and keeps them in service with other long haul routes opened up, perhaps still to Singapore or other Nations. The equipment is really too good to give up. I hope it doesn't get boneyarded or stored and instead could be put back to usage.

whammerkid

i fly ATl-HNL a fair amount and they are often quite full... i had a FA come back from F one time to chat and thank me(sitting in the first row of Y) for being a diamond. she wondered why i as a diamond would be stuck back here and offered me a couple complimentary glenlivet/rocks... she then proceeded to tell me that the route typically has a lot of passengers on award tickets...

now this is certainly anecdotal evidence but wouldn't "lots of award tickets" in F decrease profitibility (not entirely sure how they are accounted moneywise)?

RealHJ

Have you ever seen a low BE award on it available (esp. over the last year or two)? I haven't it. It doesn't seem to exist (not since HNL-MSP and HNL-DTW were cut at least).

I guess that some with no good use for their SkyZimbabweDollars may use them for mid or high award tickets for this flight, which are a horrible value... and if it's many doing that, wow, well then DL really has the wool over their heads. But, there never being any low BE awards on it (and almost never economy, either) would lead me to think that not that many awards are redeemed for it... that is, if DL customers are rational in their SM spend.

tentseller

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (BlackBerry; U; BlackBerry 9800; en) AppleWebKit/534.8+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0.0.706 Mobile Safari/534.8+)

DTW HKG was a money loser for DL. Out of 5 RT on this route all with fares in the Y cabin I was opuped 8/10.
I also did not notice many revenue generating freight containers loaded.

DeltaFan4Now

Don't the opups usually mean they sold out Y? That doesn't sound too bad...

mersk862

I tend to think the people in Network know what they're doing with the leisure Japan flying. Guam in February 2013 has 43 weekly flights on Delta, versus 16 on Northwest in February 2005 (most of which were props to Rota). Even compared to Guam February 2008, it was only 28 weekly flights. Overall seats into Guam are up 30.9% in Feb13 over Feb08.

SPN is down a bit in Feb13 vs Feb08.

HNL is up significantly - 16 more flights, 80% more seats comparing Feb13/Feb05. Feb13/Feb08 is 16 more flights, 70% more seats now. FUK and NGO are new destinations over the past five years too.

ROR has gone from a 2x/wk flight in that first year to now being 3x/wk.

Given that most of these markets are up significantly, it tells me that whatever the markets Delta is going after here is working (and I honestly don't know the mix of consolidator/tour traffic on this route). Given the public commentary on scaling way back on unprofitable long-haul flying, I tend to believe that if a route isn't performing, it's getting the ax, and if one is performing well, it's getting extra seats.

whammerkid

i usually pay when i fly that route but have booked family out to visit a half dozen times over the passed 2 years and have not seen low economy or BE awards either so i agree with your search results...

that being said... its one FA's experience with it so who knows how true it is as an assessment of the overall mix

joejones

I believe those props to Rota were actually CO flights (or CO affiliate flights, more likely) codeshared by Delta. The rise in DL/NW service to GUM had a lot to do with CO leaving SkyTeam.

In any event, these are all routes driven by tourist and a certain extent of cargo demand, and DL seems to be good at selling both. GUM also has military demand, but SPN and ROR do not.

peasant

A USA-HKG route takes at least 2, possibly 3, aircraft to operate (depending on schedule, and W Coast vs E Coast. I.e. CX ran double daily NYC flight with 5 A346, so 2.5 aircraft)

A ULH aircraft has a value of c.150m USD, so for DL to add a nonstop HKG, it making a 300+M USD investment, in an area that is CX & UA dominated.

Probably not the highest NPV investment to make - i.e. there are probably routes where that 300m USD of aircraft can make better return.

tentseller

But their Y fare is very low margin to compete with the other carriers to HKG form the Great Lakes, Namely AC, CX from YYZ direct and then another dozen with connection.

Y breaks you even, it is BE/F and freight makes you the money. You lose money when a DM/PM or even GM is op-uped to BE with T fare.

jiburi

A route from SEA to HKG did exist under Northwest a few decades ago, and HKG is still mentioned as one of the wish list of routes.....just hadn't make the final cut unfortunately.

Jiburi

MSPeconomist

NW also briefly operated MSP-HKG and VV. It used a 747 of course, but I don't remember whether it was the 747-200 or 747-400.

318i

While I curse DL for never having low BE availability on this flight, they know what they're doing... I'm pretty sure that there's a great deal of irrational redemption on this route.

Case in point:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...000-miles.html