Oakshadow

I'm sure the new T4 will have a lot that's likable, but one of the great things about JFK that negated the 3rd world T3 experience was the very easy airside connection from domestic arrivals in T2 to the international departures in T3. For the one time I tried a T2-T4 bus, it was a joke. It took about 15 minutes to leave and it seemed to take about 15 minutes to get to the other side of the arm at T4. On the ride over we had to wait twice for slow moving aircraft to clear as if we were at ATC-controlled railroad crossings.

It doesn't matter how frequent these busses are or even how nice T4 will be, JFK is going to be a cumbersume experience for connecting pax, particularly for those with tight connections. Expect to see a lot of "I Missed My T4 Flight to XXX Because The Bus Took Forever!" threads pop up on this board starting in May.

rylan

If you have a domestic -> intl connection under 1hr, be afraid.

At least if its a tight connection, I know that I had some control over being able to run to make the flight... waiting for and on that shuttle bus is like torture as you sit and know you can't do a thing as you miss your once daily intl flight.

adamj023

T3 has to go. T2 and T4 are functional, then Delta can migrate over to T4 for everything and T2 can get demolished. Other Non Skyteam carriers at T4 should be moved to an expanded T1 in the future at a later date or moved to other more appropriate terminals.

Delta's future is at Terminal 4. Problem is it takes time for the construction to finish to add new gates and the like as well as for JetBlue to finish their construction and move all their flights out to their own terminal.

When the photo came out of T2 and T4 with the connector a lot of us were wondering why they would do such a huge connector when Delta's future was at T4. Delta had to do a cost benefit analysis of Shuttle buses vs building a connector and to build a connector only to be demolished in the future does not make sense.

So I agree, Delta should increase frequency of shuttle buses but also move their entire operations at T4 and also other SkyTeam partners.

Delta's future belongs at T4. After Delta vacates T2 I predict it will get demolished and T1 will get expanded for additional gates.

Actually Delta could do better by constructing additional gates at T4 right now instead of the connector or by having flights come in without terminal connections where they depart and arrive with a shuttle back to T4.

The connector project was not thought out correctly and I think it is a smart move not to build it.

It won't be till 7-8 more months before T4 is ready and even then more work is needed. :-(

FlyAO2

Shuttle buses are terrible - quite frankly if they want to cheap out, I'd rather they put a non-climate controlled walkway outside for you to use if you want...kind of like the walkway at ATL to a CRJ plane.

No matter what option they give you - anything you can control is better than a bus.

BUT evidentally the multiple terminals is part of the NY Experience. Same garbage now at LGA. Particularly troubling when you drive to the airport and park in the other terminal

MS02113

I predict it will be very similar to the new ATL F SkyClub, only larger. Same meager snacks, same hobbled Wi-Fi, same open floor plan.

Oakshadow

For one, there just won't be enough capacity at the new T4 for all DL flights even when JetBlue ceases their few overflow flights from it. 9 new extra gates is not nearly enough for what DL needs for complete operations in T4. DL currently has 29 gates combined in T2 and T3, plus the regional jet maze gates and both terminals have been bursting at the seams for many years. T2 will still be operating at overfill capacity as it has always have, the only difference being now that pax will have to board these airside buses to catch their international flights.

Secondly, has DL changed their mind and decided to demolish T2? Where did this news come from?

squatch

i'm hoping that the demolition of T3 eases the ground traffic congestion currently in the T2/T3/T4 area. every time i land at JFK it takes 30-40 minutes from touchdown till they are opening the aircraft door. often we are sent out to a corner of JFK to wait until the congestion clears. if the airport can more easily get the ground traffic away from those gates, it will help a lot, i think.

adamj023

No I don't work for Delta, but I saw the plans with the full array of gates for T4 which were drawn up for them to move all the operations there and I believe it is very likely.

I always wondered why they didn't just shut down the terminal altogether (T2) and put all those flights outside then have a small shuttle to the flights.

I've been at airports like that before such as in Italy where they take you on a small shuttle to the plane.

Delta needs an integrated terminal just like JetBlue T5 + T5i. So for Delta this will be T4 and the modifications needed for the domestic flight additions sometime down the road in the future.

T2 will get demolished at some point in time, it is old.

The Taxiway space at T3 is needed.

Delta will definitely have full operations at T4 sometime in the future but a long way to go before they finish out the expansions and for other carriers to move out to other respective terminals.

Even La Guardia Central Terminal has replacement plans.

USA has fallen short when it comes to airport hubs and for people coming on Delta's T3 to come to the USA or go abroad is horrific. May 2013 couldn't come soon enough.

rylan

Have you experience those 'shuttle' gates at JFK? Lots of airlines use them, and DL has in the past as well... you get to experience an additional 30 min boarding and deplaning process because of it.

You also still need a place for the people to go, as well as all of those shuttle gate transport vehicles. T4 will be full of jetways with planes. They don't have an extra pile of gates to allocate for transfers to remote planes.

There are also the RJ octopus gates in T2 to deal with.

I can see T2 going and getting redone at some point, but no way will DL fit everything into T4 unless they expand it more towards T3.

adamj023

The T4 plans with the added gates was already shown. Remember, Delta's fleet will consist of bigger planes going out in the future and even the smallest planes will be larger.

T4 just needs to be expanded for these domestic flights outward and other carriers will vacate the terminal.

It will require an EXPANDED T4, T5i ready by JetBlue and perhaps British Airways moving out of T7 to the American Airlines pier so more carriers can fit at T7 and perhaps a demolishment of T2 and an expansion of T1 or a new Terminal at T2.

JFK has terminals which are constantly redeveloped over the long haul.

The choice would be the HUGE Connector from T2 to T4 or Shuttles closer to T4 so planes don't arrive at the terminal or buses connecting back from T2 to T4 till a later date.

Initially the connector was chosen and people here are now saying they just want to expand bus frequency.

I was suggesting that passengers should go through T4 for clearance come May 2013 when T4 is ready and at that point phase out T2 and institute shuttles. The upgrades include improved security screening.

As to how long after T4 is ready is ready will T2 be phased out I have no clue. They could decide to keep T2 active for several more years and still use T2 for Domestic.

But it is obvious that an integrated terminal for Delta at T4 is better for lots of reasons.

I can't say when T2 will be phased out by Delta but I know it will be in the future.

Here is what the expanded T4 will look like when all phases are completed in the future including the RJ gates:

http://filecache.drivetheweb.com/mr4...ior-future.jpg

T4 is big enough to fit in SkyTeam operations after it is fully expanded. Other carriers will have to move to other terminals including a rebuilt T2 whether it be an expanded T1 or a new T2, T5i and T7.

It will take many years before terminals are modernized further and for Skyteam to be completely at T4.

But T2's fate is up to Delta because they could demolish and have shuttles from planes if they wished.

PDXNRTLHR

That's a great graphic. Let's just hope Delta finishes this project sooner rather than later. Terminals 2 and 3 are both a bit of an embarrassment.

adamj023

Just some corrections:

T3 is turning into a taxiway which will be done later on. That Taxiway space could be used with a shuttle for Delta flights in place of T2. So it may be feasible to wait for the taxiway space at T3 before it would even be considered for T2 to be demolished at a future date.

T4 and T2 for Delta is not optimal. But it will be a long time before Delta gets to move out of T2 as there is a lot more work which needs to be done but I have no doubt T2 will be phased out by Delta eventually. They need larger operations out of T4.

It is sad because other nations have first rate airports while T4's existing phase upgrade isn't even finished yet.

Fortunately Delta's international operation is more important and bigger than its domestic operations which has a better terminal at La Guardia airport.

clarkeysntfc

Hello, sorry to bump up an old thread, but I have a question specifically relating to this post-security shuttle.

I'm thinking of booking TPA-JFK-LHR with Virgin Atlantic. They'd be using Delta for the domestic segment all on one PNR.

I'm not sure which JFK terminal the Delta flight would arrive at?

However, if I arrive from TPA at T2/3, would I be able to use this shuttle to get to T4 for my VS flight without having to re-clear security? VS use the 'A' gates in T4.

Any help is much appreciated

itsaboutthejourney

I have a feeling JFK will be the best in the system, from entry to exit, and wait until you hear about the deck...

rylan

Your domestic DL leg will arrive in T2 or T3 and there is a shuttle within the terminal area to get to T4. You don't have to leave security. Gate 19 (T2) and Gate 11 (T3) are for the shuttle. Note you'll probably have to wait a bit for it, and it takes 10-15 min to get to T4 once they start boarding the shuttle.