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-   Delta Air Lines | SkyMiles (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles-665/)
-   -   Stop over and open jaw rules (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles/1374709-stop-over-open-jaw-rules.html)

charms81 Aug 13, 2012 6:42 pm
Sorry for hijacking the thread, but I've never been able to price a ATL-CDG-BOM-CDG-openjaw/stopover-LHR-ATL or ATL-CDG-BOM-CDG-openjaw/stopover-MUC-ATL to price at 120K low mileage even though all of the segments are low award.

Anyone have an idea why this itinerary is not valid?

mtkeller Aug 13, 2012 7:35 pm
Originally Posted by charms81 (Post 19114536)
Sorry for hijacking the thread, but I've never been able to price a ATL-CDG-BOM-CDG-openjaw/stopover-LHR-ATL or ATL-CDG-BOM-CDG-openjaw/stopover-MUC-ATL to price at 120K low mileage even though all of the segments are low award.

Anyone have an idea why this itinerary is not valid?
Are you trying online or with a phone agent? You might need to do it over the phone and ask the agent to specifically code the CDG-LHR/MUC segment as an embedded surface sector.

charms81 Aug 13, 2012 8:39 pm
Wirelessly posted (Galaxy S2: Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 4.0.3; en-us; SGH-T989 Build/IML74K) AppleWebKit/534.30 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/534.30)

Originally Posted by mtkeller
Originally Posted by charms81 (Post 19114536)
Sorry for hijacking the thread, but I've never been able to price a ATL-CDG-BOM-CDG-openjaw/stopover-LHR-ATL or ATL-CDG-BOM-CDG-openjaw/stopover-MUC-ATL to price at 120K low mileage even though all of the segments are low award.

Anyone have an idea why this itinerary is not valid?
Are you trying online or with a phone agent? You might need to do it over the phone and ask the agent to specifically code the CDG-LHR/MUC segment as an embedded surface sector.
I did it online. I didn't know that surface sector is a manual override. Will try to call tomorrow and see if they can help. Thanks!

hauteboy Aug 13, 2012 9:37 pm
Originally Posted by mtkeller (Post 19114081)
Do a booking on delta.dumb. Pull up the fare rules via the view change and cancellation penalties link. Click the button for full fare rules. Search for MPM



Stopovers are permitted anywhere along a valid routing. Doesn't have to be your gateway or even a hub. If you wanted to book LAX-SLC-FAR(stop)-MSP-LHR, that would be fine.

What you're calling an "en route open jaw" is technically an embedded surface sector, which is generally permitted on a DL award. However, it does count as a segment, and DL's international award ticket fare rules expressly allow only four segments each direction. I've seen online award pricing break fares when you try using more than four segments in a direction. Both of your examples exceed the segment limit, so they won't price like you want. I'm also not confident that you can get an embedded surface sector and an open jaw like you have in your first example.
Sorry, mistyped the original... it was supposed to be FEN-REC-BSB-ATL-AUS on the return on the 1st itin as well.. so there is only the embedded surface segment/stopover BSB-GIG. I wasn't aware of the 4-segment limitation.. that will make it trickier.

ttb217 Mar 13, 2013 9:41 am
removed

chandu2013 Mar 24, 2013 3:14 pm
Originally Posted by charms81 (Post 19115061)
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I did it online. I didn't know that surface sector is a manual override. Will try to call tomorrow and see if they can help. Thanks!
This is long after your post but I'm trying to do the exact same thing. Did you have any luck with the phone agent?

charms81 Mar 27, 2013 12:11 pm
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Originally Posted by chandu2013
Originally Posted by charms81 (Post 19115061)
Wirelessly posted (Galaxy S2: Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 4.0.3; en-us; SGH-T989 Build/IML74K) AppleWebKit/534.30 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/534.30)



I did it online. I didn't know that surface sector is a manual override. Will try to call tomorrow and see if they can help. Thanks!
This is long after your post but I'm trying to do the exact same thing. Did you have any luck with the phone agent?
Nope, no luck. The agent said they could not price it as a single round trip, for some reason it prices as a circular trip.

VladQ Apr 23, 2013 1:54 am
Open-jaw instead of a stopover
 
I am trying to replace a stopover with an open-jaw on an award ticket and for some reason it looks like it's increasing the amount of miles I need to pay. I talked to an agent and he quoted 120,000 (or 125,000 which sounds more likely) instead of the original 100,000 miles.

The itinerary is: SEA-(AS)-LAX-(AZ)-FCO (stopover 10 days)-(AZ)-SOF and back (100K in Biz)

Trying to change to: SEA-(AS)-LAX-(AZ)-FCO (open jaw 10 days) PMO-(AZ)-FCO-(AZ)-SOF and back SOF-(AZ)-FCO-(AZ)-LAX-(AS)-SEA (100K in Biz)

Wondering why adding PMO-FCO (with a couple of hours of layover before FCO-SOF) is adding extra miles?

Thanks for your help!

currentjer Apr 23, 2013 1:59 am
You exceeded 4 segments going out.

VladQ Apr 23, 2013 2:28 am
Originally Posted by currentjer (Post 20637091)
You exceeded 4 segments going out.
Hm, I am confused. The destination is SOF and I have SEA-LAX-FCO/PMO-FCO-SOF on the outbound SOF-FCO-LAX-SEA, so it should be 4 on the outbound and 3 on the inbound...

3Cforme Apr 23, 2013 2:44 am
Originally Posted by VladQ (Post 20637156)
Hm, I am confused. The destination is SOF...
You're trying to transit FCO twice on the outbound.

VladQ Apr 23, 2013 2:46 am
Originally Posted by 3Cforme (Post 20637201)
You're trying to transit FCO twice on the outbound.
I was suspecting that is the issue. Is it not allowed?

If this is the case, I guess I can try CTA-MXP-SOF instead of PMO-FCO-SOF to avoid FCO. That would be pretty weird routing, but there seem to be no other way to get from Sicily to Sofia in two legs (no SkyTeam carriers fly to Sicily except obviously AZ)

mtkeller Apr 23, 2013 6:34 am
Originally Posted by VladQ (Post 20637156)
Hm, I am confused. The destination is SOF and I have SEA-LAX-FCO/PMO-FCO-SOF on the outbound SOF-FCO-LAX-SEA, so it should be 4 on the outbound and 3 on the inbound...
FCO-PMO gets coded as an embedded surface sector, which counts as a segment, so you do have five outbound. You only get an open jaw to not count against your segment limit if its at the origin or destination.

VladQ Apr 23, 2013 4:34 pm
Originally Posted by mtkeller (Post 20637807)
FCO-PMO gets coded as an embedded surface sector, which counts as a segment, so you do have five outbound. You only get an open jaw to not count against your segment limit if its at the origin or destination.
Thank you, mtkeller! I didn't realize that nor saw this very useful info before (this kind of stuff should be in a sticky). In my case it's a bummer though as it means I need to use a stopover vs an open-jaw.

By the way, is it possible to have an open-jaw and a stopover, where the former is not at the origin nor at the destination? If so, does the next flight after such open-jaw has to depart within 24 hours (say for international) like with a layover?

mtkeller Apr 23, 2013 4:54 pm
Originally Posted by VladQ (Post 20641417)
Thank you, mtkeller! I didn't realize that nor saw this very useful info before (this kind of stuff should be in a sticky). In my case it's a bummer though as it means I need to use a stopover vs an open-jaw.

By the way, is it possible to have an open-jaw and a stopover, where the former is not at the origin nor at the destination? If so, does the next flight after such open-jaw has to depart within 24 hours (say for international) like with a layover?
That's one that we don't have a lot of data on. It appears that you could do something like DTW-LHR//CDG-FCO and return FCO-JFK-DTW, counting the LHR-CDG surface sector as a stopover and an open jaw. Now if you wanted to stopover in JFK on the return, I think you'd have to depart on CDG-FCO within 24 hours of the scheduled arrival of DTW-LHR. That's my best theory. However, DL.dumb is so buggy on some of these things that I'm not even interested in trying too hard to see if it would work. Most situations I know of where people got embedded surface sectors outside of origin/destination did it over the phone. The other interesting question is if you could do DTW-LHR//CDG-FCO//AMS-DTW. Does that surface sector LHR-CDG count as your only open jaw, or is it coded as a segment and thus you can take FCO-AMS as an open jaw. I suspect you can't get away with that, but I don't know.


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