Originally Posted by VVF (Post 18331950)

The most painful thing will be explaining to my daughter why she should remove the Diamond tag from her lovely suitcase.

Originally Posted by N808DE (Post 18332231)

You encountered FA's who, for the most part, were doing their job; just not accommodating to your requests and actions.

As a paying BE passenger, I already dislike children in BE and anyone (friends or family) who are in Y and come up to J to visit/talk/whatever. It is disturbing. If families can not be separated without checking on each other then they should purchase seats together.

One question - you mention it would have been nice for the 4 of you to be together the last 15-20 minutes...I hope you meant for your wife and other child to join you in EC? If not, there's no reason DL should accommodate/allow any non-paying (money/miles) Y passenger to sit in J. Why do people with kids think they deserve preferential treatment?

As for NRSA's they have travel privileges so the fact there were NRSAs in the cabin is inconsequential.

Originally Posted by mother- (Post 18332409)

Obviously the original BE FA and the one Y FA need some help remembering that they are in the service industry and what that means. I think fawning over NRSAs while ignoring ticketed pax is very wrong, and you should bring it up to Delta. You should also bring up the maintenance issues inre broken IFE.

With that said, I have to agree with much of the above sentiment. Reading the story I got the impressions:
-You really expected them to put all of you in BE.
-Your children caused you an order of magnitude more trouble than the flight crew did.
-You seem to think it's OK and standard practice to book with small children split over two cabins, and expect to be accommodated because of it.
-You think a Y pax should be able to use the BE lav because she knows someone in BE? Or is it because you're DM?

It sounds more like the flight crew failed to make an unavoidably miserable flight more tolerable then they made it miserable themselves.

Have you stopped to consider how disruptive you must have been to the passengers around you?

Originally Posted by motytrah (Post 18333835)

Unless you have a nanny to attend to the children, stick to one cabin. This easily could have been a thread titled "Y Interloper in J!" from the perspective of other passengers.

Originally Posted by N808DE (Post 18332231)

You encountered FA's who, for the most part, were doing their job; just not accommodating to your requests and actions.

As a paying BE passenger, I already dislike children in BE and anyone (friends or family) who are in Y and come up to J to visit/talk/whatever. It is disturbing. If families can not be separated without checking on each other then they should purchase seats together.

One question - you mention it would have been nice for the 4 of you to be together the last 15-20 minutes...I hope you meant for your wife and other child to join you in EC? If not, there's no reason DL should accommodate/allow any non-paying (money/miles) Y passenger to sit in J. Why do people with kids think they deserve preferential treatment?

As for NRSA's they have travel privileges so the fact there were NRSAs in the cabin is inconsequential.

Originally Posted by VVF (Post 18334351)

Which "other passengers"? You might have noticed that there were none in this particular case ...

Originally Posted by davetravels (Post 18332190)

I've been to 61 countries and 49 states, and had tons of fabulous FAs! That said, every now n' then, there seems to be a decades long veteran FA who, somewhere along the way, has lost sight of basic, good, friendly customer service. I'm not sure how this happens! I don't want to quite go so far as to say that it's a culture issue between former airlines, but sometimes it may seem that way.

That said, what do you do with these 30/40 year employees who have, somehow, strayed from norms of basic humanity, to some kind of controlling personality or a borderline power trip? Retrain them? Maybe.

Drop DL a note, so they can check the employee's records for any past complaints, and let them decide how to fix it for the future, and possibly pacify you!

:)

Originally Posted by motytrah (Post 18334476)

Come on man, you know full well what traveling with kids is like. You had no way of knowing what how full J was going to by the time of departure. I'm not going to say the crew was perfect, they weren't, but you know better.

Originally Posted by VVF (Post 18334592)

Yes, I know very well what traveling with my kids is like. Have done it countless times, all over the world. Have not had any problems, even when they were lap infants. The "magic line" was crossed in this case twice, I think, and not a single time by either of the children.

Originally Posted by Erasmus (Post 18334653)

You're not alone. Many of us have. My first-born had visited every (inhabited) continent before he turned 2. And all of his intercontinental flying was in J. And he was an angel---almost all the time. Except that one flight from SCL to IPC when he had a bad head cold and couldn't be consoled.

What we learned, as I'm sure you have, is that every trip is different. Just because it has always worked in the past doesn't mean it will in the future. In this case, clearly your kids had some issues that required multiple parents' hands. I'm not blaming you, but as a parent you must know this happens from time to time.

All I (and several other posters) are trying to say is splitting the family is a calculated risk. This time you rolled craps. Yes, the FAs could have been more accommodating, but, as Thomas Hudson put it, there is blame to go around here.

Originally Posted by Crazyhotelguy (Post 18332307)

Also, how are the PMNW notations relavent in this discussion. They do not add, but rather deter from the OP's arguement. It has been years. It's all DL now...

Originally Posted by HookemHorns (Post 18332552)

Regarding DL and NW being one now, I think you'll find old habits die hard.

Originally Posted by VVF (Post 18334713)

You are correct, it is a calculated risk. The point is that I did not ask for any special accommodations. The purser's actions (or lack thereof as far as her direct responsibilities go) and comments were preemptive, unprovoked, and plain nasty. She escalated the situation, I have not, whereas she could have easily defused it and made everyone's life easier by simply not going on a power trip.

Originally Posted by MR_MAMA (Post 18334760)

Sorry you had such a difficult time and if she was rude, then you should write it. However, it seems you were on the power trip not her.

Originally Posted by VVF (Post 18334341)

Well, your impressions do not accurately reflect the reality, but you are entitled to your opinion even if it is dead wrong. I don't want to engage in any protracted arguments with you simply because there is no logic to your conclusions; they are preconceived notions.

What I expected was a normal service for the two who were seated in BE and merely a civilized treatment by the FAs of everyone. Ignoring two out of three BE paying passengers in the otherwise empty cabin and demonstratively taking care of the non-revs considering them "premium customers" was poor service.

Did not expect anyone to move anywhere. I am vehemently opposed to on-board upgrades by FAs, and said so on this board too.

My children did not cause any serious trouble, but the FA's conduct was unacceptable regardless of whether they were sick or not.

The experience would not have been miserable at all had the FAs not made it as bad as it was.

And yes, I considered my fellow passengers. Always do. Neither I nor my family members have been "disruptive" in any way, neither in Y, nor in BE, especially since there were no fellow passengers in the BE altogether.

Enjoy peeing in the "exclusivity" of the BE lav! We all self-validate in different ways.

Originally Posted by MR_MAMA (Post 18334760)

Sorry you had such a difficult time and if she was rude, then you should write it. However, it seems you were on the power trip not her.

You know that you are not allowed in Business Class if not flying it. Period, end of story. You were there in there at boarding which regardless of your reason is not allowed and when she asked you go back to your seat you had to say your wife did not get a PDB? That is something your wife should have discussed with her, not you as she was the passenger. There are two sides to every story but it seems to be that you were pissed from the start that there were NRSA in BE and you were not allowed.
From there the attitude started and doubt anything anyone could have done would have made it a pleasant flight for you.

I do give you kudos for stepping up and handling the medical situation, I admire that for any medical professional to do.

Originally Posted by MR_MAMA (Post 18334760)

Sorry you had such a difficult time and if she was rude, then you should write it. However, it seems you were on the power trip not her.

You know that you are not allowed in Business Class if not flying it. Period, end of story. You were there in there at boarding which regardless of your reason is not allowed and when she asked you go back to your seat you had to say your wife did not get a PDB? That is something your wife should have discussed with her, not you as she was the passenger. There are two sides to every story but it seems to be that you were pissed from the start that there were NRSA in BE and you were not allowed.
From there the attitude started and doubt anything anyone could have done would have made it a pleasant flight for you.

I do give you kudos for stepping up and handling the medical situation, I admire that for any medical professional to do.

Originally Posted by Thomas Hudson (Post 18334832)

Maybe I read it wrong, but he seems rather humble... and then the kids getting sick made a crappy situation more... crappy... I feel for him

Originally Posted by MR_MAMA (Post 18334760)

...kudos for stepping up and handling the medical situation, I admire that for any medical professional to do.

Originally Posted by Thomas Hudson (Post 18334832)

Maybe I read it wrong, but he seems rather humble... and then the kids getting sick made a crappy situation more... crappy... I feel for him

Originally Posted by VVF (Post 18334864)

...I am at a loss that I have to defend my actions in this situation ...

Originally Posted by VVF (Post 18334864)

Thank you, very much!

I am at a loss that I have to defend my actions in this situation ...

Originally Posted by ConciergeBrandon (Post 18334884)

Don't you know the posting rule?

1. Blame/doubt/grill/question OP
2. ....
3. ....


;)

Originally Posted by Thomas Hudson (Post 18334922)

but as my Cousin Peter Frampton Hudson once said, "if you swim in salt water and don't like the taste of salt water, keep your mouth closed..."

Originally Posted by VVF (Post 18334713)

You are correct, it is a calculated risk. The point is that I did not ask for any special accommodations. The purser's actions (or lack thereof as far as her direct responsibilities go) and comments were preemptive, unprovoked, and plain nasty. She escalated the situation, I have not, whereas she could have easily defused it and made everyone's life easier by simply not going on a power trip.

Originally Posted by Thomas Hudson (Post 18334922)

...I will also add that on FT, anything that has to do with kids or cross class crossings in BE will have 50% against you from the start...

Originally Posted by ConciergeBrandon (Post 18334825)

^

OP, I sympathize with you.

I do NOT fly Delta or U.S. airlines to Asia. Have you and your family been on Cathay, or Singapore which I fly regularly, your experience would have been impressive and memorable in a very good way.

Originally Posted by VVF (Post 18331950)

I wanted to share a recent experience I had on a Delta T-Pac flight (HND-LAX). The route-specific issues have been addressed in a dedicated thread, so here I would only like to mention my observations that are, in my opinion, reflective of the changes in the service and culture that are happening at Delta. Several aspects of the service were very disappointing. Perhaps those things are becoming a norm nowadays. However, to me, they are alarming indicators of declining quality of Delta’s in-flight experience despite its claims of the $MM improvements and the emphasis on the customer care. To put this experience in context, I am a seasoned flyer who has been with Delta for 18+ years, 1MM+, so it takes a lot to surprise me or make me complain.

Reader, beware – this is a long post. Sorry. Stop now if you do not want to spend the time. I just re-read it, and it seems like a diabolically improbable plot for a mediocre sitcom. I hesitated to post it, it is kind of painful to describe and feels surreal and ridiculous.

This time, I was traveling with my wife and 2 children, 2 award seats in BE and 2 paid EC seats. The load on this flight in BE was very light: only 3 paying pax in the second cabin, and ca. half-full front one. Relatively full Y. The original plan was to have the 2 yo son and me in the EC seats, while my wife and daughter would be in BE (in 5 AB, they would be separated by only 3 rows from us in the EC). It was a night flight (a 12:30 am departure), so everyone could sleep anyway, or so we thought.

After boarding, I sat my daughter in the EC, and as I was helping my wife to settle in 5AB, I overheard the person in 5C introducing himself to the purser as an NRSA, giving her a small Japanese present, talking about his aunt who is an LAX-based FA, ex-NWA, and it turned out that our purser worked for NWA for many years. The purser was touched, said that she knew from the manifest that both 5C and 5G were NRSAs, and that “we value our NRSA passengers as premium customers and are glad to have you on board,” a verbatim quote. The non-rev in 5G was a DL FA. Both were very pleasant people. The fact that they were valued more than the remaining 3 paying passengers in that cabin became pretty evident right away: the non-revs were immediately given the menus, were served pre-departure drinks, their meal orders were taken, their coats were placed in the closet, all while we were still seating without any of that and with our coats in the seats. Nobody addressed anyone by name at any time either, nobody thanked us for flying Delta, nada (in my experience, pursers usually make at least a “greeting” and a “good bye” rounds in BE; the good ones would even come to coach to acknowledge DMs, if not too many of them are on board).

Drinks and menus were still nowhere in sight, whereas our neighbors to the right were offered a second round of PDB. Not the end of the world, but … let’s call it amusing. The 2 yo was for some reason fussing instead of falling asleep as he normally does, needed to be changed (he ended up in our arms for most of the flight), so I went to an FA to give her our coats and was then helping my wife with changing, moving the bags to the overhead bins, unpacking the blankets/pillows, etc.

The purser showed up – no, not with drinks or menus, and not to welcome us or greet us by name – but to tell me that I could not be in the Business cabin. Mind you, we were still on the ground, with the door open, I was on my knees in the bulkhead well out of everyone’s way attending to our son, with the total of 5 people in the business cabin – 2 of them NRSAs, and one paying pax seating on the opposite side from us. I went back three rows where my daughter was almost ready to fall asleep, but she left her backpack with her favorite toy upfront. Went to get it only to be “greeted” by the purser who reminded me, politely but firmly, almost in a hostile way, that “you paid for two seats, and that’s what you get, and I hope you know Delta’s policy that you cannot go beyond the curtain and disturb the premium passengers, and if you needed anything, you should use the call button and I would get your wife.” Her condescending and patronizing tone was appalling, but I took the high road and did not respond in kind. I should have, right there and then; it would have made things easier in the future. I only reminded her that my wife still was not offered anything to drink and was not given a menu. “So, what does she want?” I suggested she asked my wife directly.

Shortly after the take off, my daughter suddenly woke up and was about to throw up. She never gets airsick, so both kids must have eaten something disagreeable or were just tired from a long trip that day. A bag, a quick cleanup and, as instructed, a call for an FA to get my wife so we could change my daughter’s shirt. An FA from the back of the coach cabin came up and was very surprised and irritated by my request and told me to go and get my wife myself. I explained to her that the purser instructed me to do it this way, and that I was not allowed to visit them in the Business cabin, ridiculous as it was. She got my wife, I gave my daughter some meds, changed her, things were improving, and she fell asleep again. I decided that I could quickly finish a photo project from the trip and pulled out the laptop only to find that both power outlets in our row were dead. Asked the purser to reset our seats, she did that, but nothing changed (well, this time the entertainment systems died too, but the screens remained brightly lit). The FA called the purser again, who offered to move us to different seats (not together), and in the middle row. Obviously, could not work for us, especially with a sick child. “There isn’t anything else I can do” and walked away. I covered the screens with bent safety cards to block the light.

I worked until the laptop battery died, and then very politely and apologetically “could you please do me a favor again” asked the FA to ask my wife to come to my seat. The response was priceless: “I am in the middle of the service and cannot do it every time you need her” (that was only the second time, by the way). It was like a bad Stephen King’s movie or a benzo dream – my wife was mere 5-6 feet away, but I could not get to her because by doing so I could disturb the two “premium passengers” in the BE cabin. I should have just walked in, but did not want to antagonize the purser. We still had good 5-6 hours to go. I went back to the galley in about 30 minutes, the FA was just sitting there, and I asked whether she finished the service and could now get my wife for me. “Oh, no, I will only finish it in Los Angeles, but will get her when I have a moment.” I just shook my head.

We ended up switching seats with my wife a few hours into the flight so she could get some rest as our son would only sleep in our arms (ironically, the 2nd seat in BE for which we paid was empty 90% of the flight). A different shift of FAs must have been working the cabin then, and the FA who was serving me was great – nice, attentive, professional (perhaps apologetic for her colleague’s behavior? Not sure).

To add a twist to the story, all of a sudden there was an announcement as we were pretty much in the middle of the North Pacific: medical help was needed in the last row of the economy cabin. I wanted to retract my head like a turtle into its shell, hoping that there would be someone else on board who could help. Got up, looked back, but nobody was walking there. Put my son in the seat, went to the back. Not sure how to describe the purser’s facial expression: “you again?” or “hell, no, not you!” or something like that. She quickly regained her composure realizing why I was there. I asked what was going on and how I could help. Fortunately, the situation was not very serious, took the vitals and checked the meds that the person was taking. The pax who did not feel well, the FAs, and the purser were appreciative and grateful. Went back, checked on my wife and daughter, both were sleeping, the screens were still glowing brightly, but the make-shift covers were holding up OK. My son was asleep in the seat next to me in the pretty much empty BE cabin (incidentally, ex-NWA BE seats are very inconvenient for children – constantly sliding down and getting caught by the seat belt at the neck; made a usual contraption of two pillows to stop him from sliding down), and I was finally hoping to eat and get a couple of hours of sleep. Asked for my pre-ordered Japanese dinner, some wine, which was surprisingly fine, and was treated very well by the FA working my cabin.

The purser stopped by at some point to thank me and offered a voucher (or miles?) in appreciation of my help. I declined, as I did not want any compensation for a service that I did not really provide, but she insisted saying that it was not a payment but rather a token of appreciation from the airline. Asked me for my Diamond card, put it through what looked like a credit card machine, and out came two pieces of paper with absolutely unreadable text, except for the Delta logo. I am sure she told me what they were, but my mind was elsewhere, and I had no idea what I got. It did not really matter. All of a sudden I felt crushed and exhausted even though the previous day was spectacularly pleasant and relaxing. There is a barely readable 15 on the paper, so maybe I got 1500 or 15000, or xxx miles? We’ll see. I also asked for the full name and the card of the purser, which she gave me after I repeated my request.

The rest of the flight was relatively uneventful, except for my daughter throwing up again just as we were about to begin the descent. Would have made our life much easier to have her and my wife with us for the last 15-20 minutes so we could change and regroup, but I did not even want to ask. Although the flight arrived at T5 at LAX, we needed to be transferred to TBIT by bus and were the last people to leave the plane – needed to change our son, wash up our daughter, and get our stuff together. Were riding on the same bus with pilots and FAs, and I could barely resist the urge to come to the purser and the "perpetually busy” for all 10+ hours coach FA to tell them about their accomplishments on this flight. They were laughing and joking happily completely oblivious of the damage they caused.

My daughter was so excited when I gave her my Diamond luggage tag recently; she put it on her suitcase with such a pride after I explained to her that it was to recognize those who spend a lot of time in the air and therefore know how to behave on the plane. And I would never forget a look in her eyes when she was told that she could not use the nearest BE lav to clean up and was not allowed to go beyond the curtain to her mother.

I have flown on many different airlines in many countries, and kids get children kits, backpacks, crayons, special meals, etc. to keep them occupied and entertained. I know that DL does not do that, so I did not expect any of it, but to purposefully complicate a trip of a family just to exercise authority in the confines of a metal tube is despicable. I am not sure what satisfaction the purser got from it and what was going on through her mind when she got on her high horse, but it was perverted. I looked her up, and she is indeed a NWA veteran, with years of experience, and very active in the Flight Attendants Union.

My wife, who does not fly very often but enough to experience different airlines on different continents, was shocked by the treatment we received. She thought that kids would get something special (I remember my daughter being invited to the cockpit while the plane was on the ground), especially being in business class, and that being a DM, I might get some consideration given our situation. She asked me if I knew who the VIPs in the seats to the right were, and I had to explain what being an NRSA meant. It was embarrassing.

Sure, I understand the rules – I usually fly upfront and also don’t like to be disturbed by people walking back and forth into the BE cabin from coach when I am sleeping, but in this case the cabin was empty! There wasn’t anyone to be disturbed there except for my own family. And the circumstances were not ordinary either, and it was very obvious. Any reasonable FA would offer help seeing that something was not right with two kids. Professionalism aside, compassion would be a natural human response; at least trying not to aggravate the situation further! In this case, the lead FA showed no sympathy, was blatantly disregarding simple requests of two paying BE passengers, and was in general spiteful, for no apparent reason. There is no excuse for such behavior. I have taken hundreds of flights on Delta, and I have never experienced anything like that before, but I also have never been in a similar predicament. I guess, formally speaking, the purser acted by the book, but to what end? I often read here about Delta’s drive to protect their premium product, but it looks like the purser was protecting the two passengers in that cabin who were riding for free and harassing the two who were paying their way.

Was this an isolated incident or is it a reflection of the decline in the corporate culture at Delta? I always drew a line between corporate management and the front line employees, who have generally been very professional and kind. I may have been wrong, for it seems that the rotten attitude – from the changes in the SkyMiles program, the devaluation of the miles, the decline in the quality of the meals, all accompanied by the ever increasing prices – is trickling down “to the trenches.” We must be really nothing more than sheeple to be fleeced, as Delta’s $$ bottom line is doing well.

The most painful thing will be explaining to my daughter why she should remove the Diamond tag from her lovely suitcase.

Originally Posted by VVF (Post 18334931)

I am learning ... Should not have posted. That would be the most important lesson I learned.

Originally Posted by uhclem (Post 18335093)

. . . . .However, given the nature of this board (and most others on FT) you can't expect a 100% sympathetic response.