For the record, I don't advocate rules which would prohibit children in F or J. I do, however, see many parents who don't know how to control their children and they think that everyone thinks their kids are as wonderful as they do.

As long as the children are seen and not heard, and do not make a noise, I am fine with it.. Note- this goes for adults too. (Adults can be just as/more annoying, I am aware...) my experience is that children, however, are much less behaved than their doting parents would proclaim.

This is not the first time where FTers get accused of grilling, blaming, doubting, etc., and I am sick of it. What are we expected to do...always blindly accept what any OP says and not ask questions? Another way to look at it is to simply think of this forum as consisting of one big jury that sifts through the statements of an OP, and then decides what we think is plausible under the circumstances. Sometimes we may agree with an OP, and sometimes we may not. But it seems like lately some folks here take disagreement with an OP as being somehow inappropriate. This would not be a very helpful forum if all we did was pat any OP on the back when a post containing a complaint was made, and tell the OP that DL is always wrong. Sometimes DL is wrong, sometimes DL is right. Sometimes it's 50/50 or some other percentage of right and wrong. But the members here have the right to decide if they agree or disagree with an OP, and quite frankly I feel it's just too bad if someone here takes disagreement with an OP as somehow being mean-spirited. This isn't one big slap each other on the back, cry on each other's shoulder, place. And I apply this line of reasoning to myself as well. Sometimes we need someone else to tell us we are off base in our line of thought. I like to think I am person enough to consider someone else's viewpoint here, even if it is different from mine. Apparently others here aren't.

Why are you at a loss? Did you expect everyone here would be in 100% agreement with your post? It's nothing personal if some folks here disagree with you. You seem to have difficulty accepting that some people here have a different viewpoint than yours, and that is your problem, and not the fault of those who disagree with you. It's a fact of life that if you post in any public forum such as this, that you subject yourself to a variety of responses to whatever you post. And you may not like some of the responses. Such is life. I sometimes disagree with some of the people here, but I have hung around 7 years and what I have learned in this place has been pretty cool. I don't regret it at all.

There are civilized and tactful ways to disagree and argue your position, and then there are spit-throwing finger-pointing groundless accusations such as the one you "plus oned." You know very well the difference between the two, don't you?

Everyone here most certainly has every right to question and decide on their own, but I doubt that you behave in real life as you do behind the cloak of anonymity here. So, I question your integrity.

No, I did not expect everyone to agree. I did not expect accusations and personal attacks either though.

And no, I have no difficulties accepting different viewpoints and different facts of life, no matter how hard they are. I do have difficulty accepting hypocrisy, finger pointing, and groundless accusations.

see #44 http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18335865-post44.html

You are taking this very personal. Waltin "plus oned" a post that said you were not supposed to be in the BE Cabin and that was a key contributer of of the issues.

That is techinically correct - perhaps it isn't nice and isn't what you would like to see, but it is technically correct.

I hardly think you can fault someone for agreeing with that

;) Oh yes - you just named that tune in one.

I doubt that. I have developed a rhino-type bullet-proof skin to take anything personally.

To refresh your memory, I quote the "plus oned" post, originally posted by MR_MAMA, below, with a few edits:

<...> However, it seems you were on the power trip not her.

<...> it seems to be that you were pissed from the start that there were NRSA in BE and you were not allowed.

From there the attitude started and doubt anything anyone could have done would have made it a pleasant flight for you.

Are you kidding me - What are you the Today Show editing out words from the post that don't help your story?


Post the entire quote (see below - emphasis added) - this is the crux of the point that was "plus one'd"

No, I am being dead serious.

And you know that how? You were not the one who "plus oned" it, but your position is very clear. Duly noted.

Maybe it’s just me, but any OP who has to return to a 49-post thread 13 (oops, now it's 14) times to challenge or explain is trying a bit too hard, IMO.

You won a few hearts and minds, you lost a few. You tried to help a passenger in need…you did good.

Personally, I think you ought to call it a day here. YMMV.

I thought you said you were married?:)

"honey, we don't need to buy BE for the other two tickets. I am Diamond....they will probably just let me up there if it is an empty flight and they see we have kids."

If I was in paid BE and saw this, it would annoy the living hell out of me.

Right - I don't know, but YOU clearly do.

After all - that is message in your post...you're right and the whole world is wrong.

I'm done with this thread

:D:D

+1 again on this one.

And poor attitude - even for a Y pax. Especially a TPAC Y pax.

Don't shoot the new poster, but for future reference would someone kindly explain the acronym DYKWIA? Thanks!

Oh boy! :D

"Do You Know Who I Am" . . . .

. . . . as in a passenger who expects the world to cater to his/her every whim!

Welcome to FlyerTalk!

Bang! Bang! :D Seriously, though,Welcome to FT. I think the poster above me already explained it.

One unpleasantness I've noticed over the years on international flights is how confrontational certain FAs can be with Y pax standing up near the curtain. I once had a row 15 seat (first row of coach); I put my carry-on in the bin overhead the pilot rest seat, and a male FA rousted me when I got up to get something out of the bag mid-flight. I've occasionally seen them harrass others sitting near the curtain that they surmise might be trying to invade BE. They never seem to harrass pax on domestic flights in Y coming up to use the forward lav.

I could be wrong, but isn't it a Federal law that you stay in your ticketed cabin on International flights?

Yes, you are wrong. There is no such Federal law.

However, it is a rule on most carriers.

I remember NW enforcing it (militantly) a few years ago when my group was split between Y and J DTWNRT.

I was flying TATL, I thnk, and I was standing all the way in the back, hoping to ask for a soft drink. I was standing just off the carpeted aisle on the ruberrized floor which runs from the galley to the lav. A couple of FAs were eating, and a very senior FA looked at me and said - - You're not allowed to stand off of the carpeted area. HUH??? :confused: I was SHOCKED!! Any other FA I have ever told this to, was always equally shocked!

I have always had great chats with FAs way in the back! . . . . . awaiting a fun reply from TH! ;)

There is a big difference between rules and laws. Rules can be bent and broken without any real consequences whereas the laws cannot be (at least in theory).

Apparently Delta does not mind having BE passengers going to the Y cabin, but the opposite is not OK.

With BE tickets costing 10X (+) coach tickets, I think that is a reasonable rule for Dl to enforce.

Really? Why should BE passengers inconvenience Y pax and crowd the already tight Y quarters? Shouldn't it be beneath the BE pax to mingle with the "masses"?

(a rhetorical question, don't bother to answer. I know your views from your recent posts).

Oh, bubba, that's just low!

But good to know how to annoy the living hell out of you! I will be using DTW more often soon ...

The Purser on the DL flight from LHR to JFK I took last yeat used the phrase 'respect the curtain' at least 3 times during his 'welcome' message.

I was in BE so never needed to diss the curtain!

The behaviour of the FA was poor, sorry to hear the children were sick and kudos for your help with the sick passenger but this bears repeating over and over again:

You're already more likely to disturb other passengers when traveling with young children, but for the sake of everyone else on the plane don't spread the disturbance across two cabins. Get four seats in J, or ask for a row of 4 Y seats right at the back of the economy cabin.

Someone posted that this would not have happened on an SQ or a CX. Which is why in my experience on Asian carriers, the number of times on night flights the flight crew did exactly what the OP requested and everyone around the PAX in either cabin is kept awake by the shuffling up and down the aisles, agitated whispering in hushed tones, bumping of seats etc etc. Just when you think they're finally sorted out in the business cabin and you are about to fall asleep again, they pop back into economy and thrash around in the overhead bins and hand luggage for some other emergency item and wake everyone in their vicinity again.

There's a reason Malaysia Airlines is banning kids from First Class and introducing a kid-free zone on their A380.

I'm sure everyone else on board will be appreciative of the ruckus moving back and forth between cabins. Will baby vomit be included as well? Nothing says class like annoying your fellow travelers.

Bolding mine - I've seen both BE FAs & pilots give the person seated next to the rest seat a tutorial in what to do/not do regarding the seat (don't put your stuff there, don't take the pillow/quilt, THIS is your control, THIS is for the pilot, etc). So in addition to you crossing the magic curtain, perhaps there was extra sensitivity around potentially disturbing the rest seat?

Though I've had the opposite - once seated 1B in TATL BE I got up to use the lav, the FA said...'he's been in there a LONG time, you may want to use the one in the rear' which I proceeded to do. Though it involved crossing a curtain that separated BE from Y on that side, to cross the BE aft galley to the other BE lav...an FA said "Are you supposed to be here?" to which I replied, "the purser strongly recommended I not use the forward lav." :rolleyes:

Do not provide information unless you are sure about it. You are wrong about MH. The only thing they did, and it was done because of the suite configurations in First, is not installing bassinets there. Otherwise, children are welcome to fly in 1st, business, or coach classes. Buy a seat and enjoy the flight!

No other airline, as far as I know, has imposed any "kids bans" so far.

I read the tread several times and did not see that the OP requested anything out of the ordinary.

Regarding MH:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/travel/n...-1226318376116

"FIRST it banned babies from first class, and now Malaysia Airlines has declared a child-free zone on its Airbus A380s.

The child ban applies to the upper deck economy section of its jets, restricting children to the lower deck, Australian Business Traveller reports.

The move was revealed in an advisory issued to travel agents which stated that children under 12 would be banned from the section on its new superjumbo, which is set to make its debut on July 1.

It hopes that the adults-only cabin will ensure a more enjoyable flight for business travellers who have to fly in economy.

According to an airline memo sent to South Korean travel site Topasweb: "(the booking system) is currently being developed so that, when customer has (a child or infant booking), seats on upper deck will automatically be excluded from selection.

"Please make your seat selection at lower level if you are travelling with children under 12 years old."

The airline banned babies from its first class section on its A380 and 747-400 fleet last year after receiving a number of complains about crying infants.

Its first flight will be between Kuala Lumpur and London, with a Sydney-Kuala Lumpur flight on September 25." --Melbourne Herald Sun

Correct.

The only thing that was done is no bassinets in F. Kids of all ages can be in F and J as long as they have a ticket. Yes, there apparently will be a cildren-free zone in Y on the upper deck of 380, but nothing more than that. Children can fly in all three classes of service.

I'm sure about it (http://www.ausbt.com.au/malaysia-air...on-airbus-a380), more airlines should take a leaf out of MH's book, and the fact the OP's request is seen as "nothing out of the ordinary" reflects a lack of consideration for other passengers.

Like I said above, children can fly in all three classes on MH. Babies cannot be in F. There will be a kid-free zone in one section of Y on 380. No "kid bans" otherwise. You said that MH is banning kids from First Class. It is not.

Still could find any requests in the original post.