Basic Economy Fare Class E finally answered??
Apr 2, 2012, 8:38 am
#241
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As of 01 APR, no fooling, I can't find any E fares anymore. I checked the usual suspects, DTW-MCO,FLL,RSW,TPA for random dates in April. Were they a flop, do you suppose? Caused a lot of trouble for the business traveler, perhaps?
I'd appreciate hearing any recent sightings of E fares....just to keep an eye on what's up with DL....
I'd appreciate hearing any recent sightings of E fares....just to keep an eye on what's up with DL....
Apr 2, 2012, 11:38 am
#242
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: DCA / WAS
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Another problem is companies that require their employees book the lowest rate via an online booking portal (like mine) will be forced into the E fares if they want to stick with Delta. I think I'll pass on a middle seat in the back of the bus when I'm demoted to SM next year due to losing my "fake diamond" status..
Oh for the love of!@#@#%.
This is a HUGE problem for me. The E fares show up in my online travel portal as the available coach fare. I have no ability to ticket in any other coach class on work travel. [I can specify fully refundable in the search engine, but that is not within our policy to buy].
So I will have to avoid DL whenever it wants to book me into E.
Arg!
This is a HUGE problem for me. The E fares show up in my online travel portal as the available coach fare. I have no ability to ticket in any other coach class on work travel. [I can specify fully refundable in the search engine, but that is not within our policy to buy].
So I will have to avoid DL whenever it wants to book me into E.
Arg!
I can guarantee you that I'll book away from DL very fast if I find myself being pushed into E fares. I'd rather make a connection on AA w/advance seat assignment than take chances on DL w/no seat assignment.
Further, I'm not sure whether our TA got it wrong or whether DL is not being fully honest in their pronouncements (or as part of corporate deals they have special conditions on the fares). THe notice from our TA reads:
Please note that DELTA airlines has introduced new deeply discounted "BASIC ECONOMY" airfares designated by an "E" booking code with are completely NON-CHANGABLE, NON-REFUNDABLE and if not used as booked ticket value is FORFEITED. Pre reserved seat assignments and frequent flyer mileage accrual is not allowed using these fare types.
The TA site further notes:
... has been programmed to return the lowest available fare for the flight selected.
Marketing airline is in Delta and Fare Uses class of service E - allow
Apr 2, 2012, 12:14 pm
#243
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As of 01 APR, no fooling, I can't find any E fares anymore. I checked the usual suspects, DTW-MCO,FLL,RSW,TPA for random dates in April. Were they a flop, do you suppose? Caused a lot of trouble for the business traveler, perhaps?
I'd appreciate hearing any recent sightings of E fares....just to keep an eye on what's up with DL....
I'd appreciate hearing any recent sightings of E fares....just to keep an eye on what's up with DL....
[KVS Availability Tool 6.9.8/Diamond - Galileo: Fares/PSH/RU]
Code:
DTW Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County MI US [KDTW] TPA Tampa Intl FL US [KTPA] R/T 01 May 2012 | Economy Carrier From To Fare Cur AdvanceP Min Max Fare Basis | Travel Period --------- ------ ---- -------- ---- -------- --- --- -------------------------- DL DTT TPA 191 USD 21 Days Sun 30 TE21A0QN DL DTT TPA 191 USD 21 Days Sun 30 EE21A0QN DL DTT TPA 191 USD 21 Days Sun 30 TE21A0QN DL DTT TPA 191 USD 21 Days Sun 30 EE21A0QN DL DTT TPA 226 USD 14 Days 30 UC14A0QN DL DTT TPA 226 USD 14 Days 30 UC14A0QN DL DTT TPA 228 USD 21 Days UA21A0QN DL DTT TPA 228 USD 21 Days UA21A0QN DL DTT TPA 247 USD 14 Days UA14A0QN DL DTT TPA 247 USD 14 Days UA14A0QN DL DTT TPA 265 USD 7 Days Sun 30 UE07A0QN DL DTT TPA 265 USD 7 Days Sun 30 UE07A0QN DL DTT TPA 283 USD *** 30 LC00A0QN DL DTT TPA 283 USD *** 30 LC00A0QN DL DTT TPA 320 USD 7 Days LA07A0QN DL DTT TPA 320 USD 7 Days LA07A0QN DL DTT TPA 436 USD 7 Days QA07A0NN DL DTT TPA 436 USD 7 Days QA07A0NN DL DTT TPA 504 USD *** QA00A0QN DL DTT TPA 504 USD *** QA00A0QN DL DTT TPA 560 USD *** 60 HLVUSA DL DTT TPA 560 USD *** 60 HLVUSA DL DTT TPA 565 USD *** HA00A0NN DL DTT TPA 565 USD *** HA00A0NN DL DTT TPA 581 USD 7 Days QA07A0NN DL DTT TPA 581 USD 7 Days QA07A0NN DL DTT TPA 581 USD 7 Days QA07A0NN DL DTT TPA 581 USD 7 Days QA07A0NN DL DTT TPA 620 USD *** HA00A0UN DL DTT TPA 620 USD *** HA00A0UN DL DTT TPA 650 USD *** QA00A0QN DL DTT TPA 650 USD *** QA00A0QN DL DTT TPA 650 USD *** QA00A0QN DL DTT TPA 650 USD *** QA00A0QN DL DTT TPA 675 USD *** HA00A0VN DL DTT TPA 675 USD *** HA00A0VN DL DTT TPA 692 USD *** HA00A0NN DL DTT TPA 692 USD *** HA00A0NN DL DTT TPA 692 USD *** HA00A0NN DL DTT TPA 692 USD *** HA00A0NN DL DTT TPA 747 USD *** HA00A0UN DL DTT TPA 747 USD *** HA00A0UN DL DTT TPA 747 USD *** HA00A0UN DL DTT TPA 747 USD *** HA00A0UN DL DTT TPA 802 USD *** HA00A0VN DL DTT TPA 802 USD *** HA00A0VN DL DTT TPA 802 USD *** HA00A0VN DL DTT TPA 802 USD *** HA00A0VN DL DTT TPA 972 USD *** MA00A0RN DL DTT TPA 972 USD *** MA00A0RN
Code:
[Rule Application & Other Conditions]
NOTE - THE FOLLOWING TEXT IS INFORMATIONAL AND NOT
VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
BASIC ECONOMY FARES
APPLICATION
CLASS OF SERVICE
THESE FARES APPLY FOR COACH CLASS SERVICE.
CAPACITY LIMITATIONS
SEATS ARE LIMITED.
OTHER CONDITIONS
NON REFUNDABLE FARES
NO CHANGES ALLOWED
NO PRERESERVED SEATS
UNUSED COUPONS HAVE NO RESIDUAL VALUE.
[Flight Application]
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
DL FLIGHTS 1 THROUGH 1334
DL FLIGHTS 1400 THROUGH 5899
DL FLIGHTS 5970 THROUGH 6022
DL FLIGHTS 6026 THROUGH 6711
DL FLIGHTS 7300 THROUGH 7329
DL FLIGHTS 7755 THROUGH 7814
DL FLIGHTS 7940 THROUGH 7979
DL FLIGHTS 8220 THROUGH 8314
DL FLIGHTS 8770 THROUGH 8969
DL FLIGHTS 9700 THROUGH 9784
DL FLIGHTS 9791 THROUGH 9999
IN COMBINATION WITH
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY DL FLIGHT.
NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
NO DELTA SHUTTLE OR CODESHARE ALLOWED
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
DL FLIGHTS 1 THROUGH 1334
DL FLIGHTS 1400 THROUGH 5899
DL FLIGHTS 5970 THROUGH 6022
DL FLIGHTS 6026 THROUGH 6711
DL FLIGHTS 7300 THROUGH 7329
DL FLIGHTS 7755 THROUGH 7814
DL FLIGHTS 7940 THROUGH 7979
DL FLIGHTS 8220 THROUGH 8314
DL FLIGHTS 8770 THROUGH 8969
DL FLIGHTS 9700 THROUGH 9784
DL FLIGHTS 9791 THROUGH 9999.
NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
1. NO DELTA SHUTTLE OR CODESHARE ALLOWED.
[Advance Reservations/Ticketing]
CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS ARE REQUIRED FOR ALL SECTORS.
TICKETING ON EACH TRIP MUST BE COMPLETED WITHIN 1 DAY
AFTER RESERVATIONS ARE MADE OR AT LEAST 21 DAYS BEFORE
DEPARTURE WHICHEVER IS EARLIER.
NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
STANDBY IS NOT PERMITTED.
SAME DAY CONFIRM/SDC -
PASSENGERS HOLDING CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS AND
TICKETS MAY CONFIRM EARLIER/LATER SAME DAY
FLIGHTS BETWEEN SAME ORIGIN/DESTINATION/
STOPOVER POINTS FOR A NON-REFUNDABLE FEE OF
USD 50.00 PLUS ANY DIFFERENCE IN GOVERNMENT
IMPOSED ITINERARY BASED FEES. NEW ITINERARY
MAY NOT BE CONFIRMED MORE THAN 3 HOURS PRIOR
TO DEPARTURE TIME OF NEW OUTBOUND FLIGHT. THE
NEW ITINERARY MUST BE VALID FOR THE ORIGINAL
FARE PURCHASED. EXCEPTION- IF ORIGINAL FARE
PURCHASED REQUIRES TRAVEL VIA A CONNECTING
POINT - TRAVEL VIA NON STOP SERVICE IS
PERMITTED FOR NO DIFFERENCE IN FARE.
SEE PENALTIES/VOLUNTARY CHANGES FOR COMPLETE
RULES AND RESTRICTIONS.
[Minimum Stay]
TRAVEL FROM LAST STOPOVER MUST COMMENCE NO EARLIER
THAN THE FIRST SUN AFTER DEPARTURE FROM FARE ORIGIN.
[Maximum Stay]
TRAVEL FROM LAST STOPOVER MUST COMMENCE NO LATER THAN
30 DAYS AFTER DEPARTURE FROM FARE ORIGIN.
[Stopovers]
STOPOVERS ARE NOT PERMITTED AT INTERMEDIATE POINTS.
[Transfers]
2 TRANSFERS PERMITTED IN EACH DIRECTION
ANY COMBINATION OF THE FOLLOWING -
2 ONLINE ON DL.
FARE BREAK AND EMBEDDED SURFACE SECTORS NOT PERMITTED
ON THE FARE COMPONENT.
[Surcharges]
IF INFANT WITHOUT A SEAT PSGR UNDER 2.
THERE IS NO MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE PER FARE
COMPONENT.
FOR TRAVEL ON/AFTER 04NOV12
MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF 10 PERCENT OF THE
FARE PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE
APPLICABLE FARE.
NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE
COMPONENT BASIS.
[Sales Restrictions]
NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
EXTENSION OF TICKET VALIDITY PERMITTED UNDER
GUIDELINES SET FORTH BY CARRIER. CONTACT
CARRIER FOR DETAILS.
[Penalties]
CANCELLATIONS
TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE IN CASE OF CANCEL/NO-SHOW.
NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
TICKET MAY NOT BE APPLIED TOWARDS PURCHASE OF ANY
OTHER TICKET.
THIS CANCELLATION FEE WILL ALSO BE ASSESSED TO
REFUNDS OF COUPONS INVOLVING FARES GOVERNED BY
THIS RULE.
CHANGES
CHANGES NOT PERMITTED.
NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
STANDBY IS NOT PERMITTED
SAME DAY CONFIRM/SDC-
PASSENGERS HOLDING CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS AND
TICKETS MAY CONFIRM EARLIER/LATER SAME DAY
FLIGHTS BETWEEN SAME ORIGIN/DESTINATION/
STOPOVER POINTS FOR A NON-REFUNDABLE FEE OF
USD 50.00 PLUS ANY DIFFERENCE IN GOVERNMENT
IMPOSED ITINERARY BASED FEES IF APPLICABLE.
NEW ITINERARY MAY NOT BE CONFIRMED MORE THAN
3 HOURS PRIOR TO DEPARTURE TIME OF NEW FLIGHT.
SEAT INVENTORY MUST BE AVAILABLE IN THE CABIN
APPLICABLE TO THE FARE CHARGED. THE NEW
ITINERARY MUST BE VALID FOR THE ORIGINAL FARE
PURCHASED.
EXCEPTION- IF ORIGINAL FARE PURCHASED REQUIRES
TRAVEL VIA A CONNECTING POINT - TRAVEL VIA
NON STOP SERVICE IS PERMITTED FOR NO DIFFERENCE
IN FARE.
[Combinations]
DOUBLE OPEN JAWS NOT PERMITTED.
END-ON-END
END-ON-END COMBINATIONS PERMITTED WITH DL FARES.
VALIDATE ALL FARE COMPONENTS. SIDE TRIPS PERMITTED
WITH NO RESTRICTIONS.
PROVIDED -
COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY E- TYPE FARES.
OPEN JAWS/2-COMPONENT CIRCLE TRIPS/MULTI-COMPONENT
CIRCLE TRIPS
FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS
WITH DL FARES
-TO FORM SINGLE OPEN JAWS
A MAXIMUM OF 2 FARE COMPONENTS PERMITTED. MILEAGE
OF THE OPEN SEGMENT MUST BE EQUAL/LESS THAN MILEAGE
OF THE SHORTEST FLOWN FARE COMPONENT.
-TO FORM 2-COMPONENT CIRCLE TRIPS
-TO FORM MULTI-COMPONENT CIRCLE TRIPS WITH DL FARES
A MAXIMUM OF 2 FARE BREAK POINTS PERMITTED.
PROVIDED -
COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY E- TYPE FARES IN ANY
RULE AND TARIFF.
NOTE - THE CITY PAIRS BELOW ARE CONSIDERED THE SAME
POINT -
BWI-WAS FLL-MIA LAX-BUR LAX-ONT LAX-SNA
NYC-EWR OAK-SFO OAK-SJC SFO-SJC
[Ticket Endorsement]
THE ORIGINAL AND THE REISSUED TICKET MUST BE ANNOTATED
- NONREF/NOCHGS - AND - NOPRE RSVDSEAT - IN THE
ENDORSEMENT BOX.
[Children Discounts]
1ST INF/INFANT WITHOUT A SEAT PSGR UNDER 2 - NO
CHARGE.
TICKET DESIGNATOR - IN00.
MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN THE SAME
COMPARTMENT BY ADULT PSGR.
OR - INS/INFANT WITH A SEAT PSGR UNDER 2 - CHARGE 100
PERCENT OF THE FARE.
MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN THE SAME
COMPARTMENT BY ADULT PSGR.
[Voluntary Refunds]
CHECK CATEGORY 16 OR CONTACT CARRIER FOR DETAILS.
[Eligibility]
NO ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS APPLY.
[Day/Time]
NO DAY/TIME TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS APPLY.
[Seasonality]
NO SEASONAL TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS APPLY.
[Blackout Dates]
NO BLACKOUT DATES APPLY.
[Accompanied Travel]
ACCOMPANIED TRAVEL NOT REQUIRED.
[Travel Restrictions]
NO TRAVEL DATE RESTRICTIONS APPLY.
[HIP/Mileage Exceptions]
NO HIP OR MILEAGE EXCEPTIONS APPLY.
[Tour Conductor Discounts]
NO DISCOUNTS FOR TOUR CONDUCTORS.
[Agent Discounts]
NO DISCOUNTS FOR SALE AGENTS.
[All Other Discounts]
NO DISCOUNTS FOR OTHERS.
[Miscellaneous Provisions]
NO PROVISIONS APPLY.
[Fare By Rule]
NOT APPLICABLE.
[Groups]
NO GROUP PROVISIONS APPLY.
[Tours]
NO TOUR PROVISIONS APPLY.
[Visit Another Country]
NO VISIT ANOTHER COUNTRY PROVISIONS APPLY.
[Deposits]
NO DEPOSIT PROVISIONS APPLY.
[Voluntary Changes]
ENTER RD*31 OR RD*LINE NUM**31 FOR VOLUNTARY CHGS.
[Negotiated Fares]
NOT APPLICABLE.
[International Construction]
NOT A CONSTRUCTED FARE
Apr 3, 2012, 1:55 pm
#244
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 325
The problem is that tons of people today are booking with sites like Kayak, Expedia, etc. Here, they see the lowest price and grab it. That will create a perceived sense of high demand to Delta, which will likely influence them to expand these "savings" to other fare brackets. Time will tell...
I also find it interesting how that chart mentions "redeemable mileage," but says nothing about MQMs...
I also find it interesting how that chart mentions "redeemable mileage," but says nothing about MQMs...
In the big picture sense, it is just an acknowledgement that the the LCC revolution 2.0 is here: ULCCs competing directly in legacy hubs, with heavy dependence on ancillary revenue, with ala carte pricing.
Apr 3, 2012, 2:04 pm
#245
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 325
Further proof that the evolution of LCCs into ULCCs is alive and well, and the business model of low base fare (for display on third party distribution sites), heavy ancillary revenue dependence, and ala carte pricing is here to stay and growing.
Apr 3, 2012, 6:07 pm
#246
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Programs: AA Gold,DL Gold
Posts: 858
Looking at DTWTPA T fares in the past month the new E fare is at the same price level as the old T 21 AP fare.
Of course since they now need to forecast and control E it is no surprise that the bucket is now everywhere.
All they need to do is cancel all the lowest T fare in the domestic system and refile as E class and the rollout is complete.
They could test it out but even if it does not work out having another class to further segment the cheap fare.
I expect E class to be an additional class that will be used for low end Economy regardless of the seat assignment tactic they are trying.
Of course since they now need to forecast and control E it is no surprise that the bucket is now everywhere.
All they need to do is cancel all the lowest T fare in the domestic system and refile as E class and the rollout is complete.
They could test it out but even if it does not work out having another class to further segment the cheap fare.
I expect E class to be an additional class that will be used for low end Economy regardless of the seat assignment tactic they are trying.
Apr 4, 2012, 10:34 am
#247
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ATL
Programs: DL - PM (Sky Priority);HH - Gold; Marriott - Silver; National - Executive; DL Reserve AMEX
Posts: 5,234
My concern with this is that Delta will start to price the E fare at the same price the T fare is currently and promptly increase the fares on all T, U, L, etc. fares...
Apr 4, 2012, 10:43 am
#248
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ATL
Programs: DL - PM (Sky Priority);HH - Gold; Marriott - Silver; National - Executive; DL Reserve AMEX
Posts: 5,234
Apr 4, 2012, 10:52 am
#249
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ATL
Programs: DL - PM (Sky Priority);HH - Gold; Marriott - Silver; National - Executive; DL Reserve AMEX
Posts: 5,234
Your travel agent got it wrong... It's pretty clear that E fares DO earn miles and MQMs.
Are there any differences in SkyMiles® benefits received by members on a Basic Economy fare compared to other Economy tickets?
With the exception of advance seat assignments, you are eligible for all SkyMiles® benefits, including mileage and MQM accrual and complimentary Medallion® upgrades when applicable.
With the exception of advance seat assignments, you are eligible for all SkyMiles® benefits, including mileage and MQM accrual and complimentary Medallion® upgrades when applicable.
Apr 4, 2012, 12:19 pm
#250
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: DCA / WAS
Programs: DL 2+ million/PM, YX, Marriott Plt, *wood gold, HHonors, CO Plt, UA, AA EXP, WN, AGR
Posts: 9,388
While I'm not surprised that the TA might have gotten it wrong, I would not be surprised if DL's intent is to eliminate all FF benefits from these fares. Won't be the first time that the pot's been turned on before being brought to a boil.
Apr 4, 2012, 12:40 pm
#251
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LAX/BOS/HKG/AMS/SFO...hmm, I need a life.
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Posts: 13,316
Unless it's part of a deal negotiated with the airline.
While I'm not surprised that the TA might have gotten it wrong, I would not be surprised if DL's intent is to eliminate all FF benefits from these fares. Won't be the first time that the pot's been turned on before being brought to a boil.
While I'm not surprised that the TA might have gotten it wrong, I would not be surprised if DL's intent is to eliminate all FF benefits from these fares. Won't be the first time that the pot's been turned on before being brought to a boil.
Ribbit.
Apr 4, 2012, 12:56 pm
#252
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Apr 4, 2012, 5:49 pm
#253
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: HKG
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 541
This doesn't make sense.
Take DTW-FLL.
Economy T prices at $248.60
Economy E prices at $229.60
If you select the E fares, the next page offers you to "ease into an economy fare" for $9.50 one-way. Selecting this option immediately changes the fare class to T. So you get T for $9.50 more, even though on the first booking page T was $19 more.
Huh?
Take DTW-FLL.
Economy T prices at $248.60
Economy E prices at $229.60
If you select the E fares, the next page offers you to "ease into an economy fare" for $9.50 one-way. Selecting this option immediately changes the fare class to T. So you get T for $9.50 more, even though on the first booking page T was $19 more.
Huh?
Apr 4, 2012, 7:17 pm
#254
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ATL
Programs: AA GLD Skymiles DM MM, a+ rewards lifetime elite, AS, Marriott plat, PC plat, HH gold
Posts: 1,275
This doesn't make sense.
Take DTW-FLL.
Economy T prices at $248.60
Economy E prices at $229.60
If you select the E fares, the next page offers you to "ease into an economy fare" for $9.50 one-way. Selecting this option immediately changes the fare class to T. So you get T for $9.50 more, even though on the first booking page T was $19 more.
Huh?
Take DTW-FLL.
Economy T prices at $248.60
Economy E prices at $229.60
If you select the E fares, the next page offers you to "ease into an economy fare" for $9.50 one-way. Selecting this option immediately changes the fare class to T. So you get T for $9.50 more, even though on the first booking page T was $19 more.
Huh?
Apr 5, 2012, 2:49 pm
#255
In memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2005
Location: PIT
Programs: DM life is over 2MM PM now & NW MillionAir Wyndham Rewards Plat -Hotels.com Silver -Accor Silver
Posts: 15,408
This doesn't make sense.
Take DTW-FLL.
Economy T prices at $248.60
Economy E prices at $229.60
If you select the E fares, the next page offers you to "ease into an economy fare" for $9.50 one-way. Selecting this option immediately changes the fare class to T. So you get T for $9.50 more, even though on the first booking page T was $19 more.
Huh?
Take DTW-FLL.
Economy T prices at $248.60
Economy E prices at $229.60
If you select the E fares, the next page offers you to "ease into an economy fare" for $9.50 one-way. Selecting this option immediately changes the fare class to T. So you get T for $9.50 more, even though on the first booking page T was $19 more.
Huh?
$248.60 - 229.60 = $19.00
Whoops! I didn't see the post above!
Anyway, it's amazing that they have more new IT that can do all of this newfangled stuff, but they still can't fix the award calendar!