davetravels

I recently flew my first ever FL segment! Why? Because I did a hidden city deal!

I went on Airtran.com to try'n select a seat, and it was asking for $12 (per segment, I believe).

I flew back on DL!

Many of us DO buy the cheapest fare - even DM & PMs! The way I see it, is the net unintended effect of this, is that now, some Medallions will have to PAY for our seats by buying a T or higher class fare.

May, or may not get a preferred seat! It's not guaranteed, and even if you are auto-assigned one, you still can't change it if you don't like it.

For me, I just have to hope this stays isolated to NK matching fares, as they don't fly to PIT.

DeltaFan4Now

The bolded part is something that most on here don't seem to get. Yes, the FF's M fare is earning DL more per seat than the T fare, but M fares aren't filling planes and won't fill planes.

c_d

Sure, many fares are non-changeable and non-refundable, especially with the LLC. However, the non-airline portions of an non-refundable fare, such as taxes, non-airline fees, must be refunded in case you do consume the ticket.

Furthermore, adequate accommodation, food, and communications must be provided in any case by the airline when delays hit (that does include weather and strikes).

One "funny" observation: since he YQ is designated as tax in any DL tickets, this should be refunded as well. Do we have any lawyers on board that may comment on that?

c_d

YES! That whole M-fare business ... I am flying DL fairly often because my travel department is legally bound to book the cheapest fare. Ex-EU, DL was constantly underbidding all other carriers in the cheapest Economy fare, while being just blown out of proportion on higher-Y's and J. I had a short-notice booking two weeks ago to go to Germany with only 4 days of advance booking: T was $780, M was around $4k, and J was in excess of $7k. Sorry DL, for my leisure trips, I would rather book a J on COUA for 3K than shelling out $4k for M with no guarantees and I would definitely not pay $7k for a recliner on a 763.

Anyway the primary problem is the T fare is too cheap to be sustained by DL indefinitely, and the M fare is too expensive to be sustained by the passengers. Everything in between is just waste of fare codes by exporting the capacity management to us. Adding yet another fare under T is not helping here, although they could make E the new T and slightly raise everything else.

Crazyhotelguy

E fare = Middle Seat, Medallion or not......

mother-

To make a vain attempt at making this on topic:if the T fare is too cheap they wouldn't be introducing an even cheaper E fare.

Pharaoh

It's not a tax, but rather a surcharge or fee. It is included in the Taxes and Fees area. Apart from that I would like to know the answer, too.

DiverDave

I must use a corporate booking engine that will pull the lowest fares. I don't know the fare class until after the reservation gets ticketed.

I guess I will have to alert our travel department to the existence of new fares that are completely unchangeable.

David

sxf24

I'm not talking about (or dwelling in) the past. This thread is about the introduction of Basic Economy and a new "E" fare class. Delta has communicated this change (or enhancement if you prefer) in several different ways. If you do not feel the communication was clear, I'm curious what more you would expect Delta to do?

What facts are missing and what facts have I exaggerated?

P.S. Holding up an analogy as an exaggeration doesn't count.

I would definitely alert your travel department and ask/encourage them to exclude E fares from the search results. Our corporate booking engine only displays the lowest available fare for the flight and they were able to make that change.

Depending on what booking engine you use, there may be a link to fare rules even if the fare class isn't noted. Not that it helps if you can't pick a different fare class.

c_d

I beg to differ. DL is co-financing their ridiculous cheap seats with the higher-priced and so is every other airline. However, in certain markets super-cheap is still not cheap enough to compete with other carriers and a downward spiral is engaged. Then fares like E are introduced and not only other setas but also other routes are used for co-financing. According to freely available information (I cannot determine how accurate that is though), such as from airlinefinancials.com and yahoo biz, the consolidated operating cost per available seat mile ("CASM") was around $0.14 at Delta. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to determine that a $500 to $600 a/i r/t to heavily fought markets, such as EU, are NOT sustainable.

I am actually happy that the TXL craziness is gone, in 2008 I was able to book several €351 a/i r/t to JFK! Eventually, I was the one hurting because DL trained the wrong crowd to be in their planes. Those were filles with 90% tourists and eventually DL dropped that route. Woo is suffering now? Me.

As I said before in this thread, I just booked a T fare 4 days in advance for $780 yielding a total of 11453 miles flown. I think everyone else can see that there is something wrong with that picture but I thank everyone booking into a higher fare (not class!) to have actually paid parts of my ticket.

This fare, in my little opinion, is aimed at infrequent flyers that do not require certain amenities, such as seat selection, because their only selection criteria is price. Anyway, at the end of the day, Delta needs to make a profit and cover costs. If E cannot deliver that, then the other seats need to subsidise the infrequent traveller even more. Therefore, I personally expect the E fare only to be cheaper in comparison and ratio, which simply means: E is taking the role of T now and every fare starting from T will be raised in price to offset the lost revenue.

As a monetary result, E is not underbidding T and is not an

c_d

I am aware of that.

No, that observation is deprecated. DL has changed the layout and design on their forms, the YQ is now in shown in a section named exactly that: "TAX" Can someone name a upload tool that does not require a login for attaching a recent statement?

dcline414

I use postimage.org

avidflyer

E = EVIL.

This is a bad road to go down for Corporate business travellers. For now they appear to earn full MQMs but folks, really, the "Bad" change will come unannounced at some point. You woulda thought that DL Insider would have given the amazingly loyal DL base here a heads up.... I am glad the UA integration issues are smoothing out. 2 trips next week and both UDU's cleared right at 96 hours. For a while there I thought I might have to come back to DL

E Fare = Evil.

The issue is with Corporate booking engines. Many times there is no choice to book a higher fare. That means DM's are in middle seats in the back. To me that is a huge problem and I can see many DM's jumping because of this. This is a tactical mistake on DL's part IMO.

DeltaFan4Now

^

StayingHomeIsBetter

^^^

We should all keep in mind that the bean counters who have input to corporate travel budgets and travel policies may have received their MBAs from the same places as the "lusting over pennies" bean counters who pull the strings within DL.