Is this an example of back-to-back ticketing?
 

I need a little bit help see if this breaks delta's rules?

I'm booking

Friday night departure: DL JFK-LHR
AND
Next Friday returning DL LHR-JFK together as round trip.

The JFK-LHR flight gets me into london on Saturday morning. I will stay in London for one day and then take the following flight:
AF LHR-CDG-SGN
AND
return to LHR on AF next thursday.

Then I will have one day layover in london and I will take DL LHR-JFK back. If i put down my skymlie number for both DL and AF ticket, would that be a problem? Is that a back to back ticketing? Or back to back ticketing only refers to tickets on the same airline?

Nothing wrong with what you propose. It's not back-to-back ticketing because your second ticket is to a different destination than your POO. It's more like a nested ticket, but people do that all the time to force lower fares or better connections/layovers. You'll be fine.

thank you!!

There really should be a more descriptive term for back to back ticketing. I don't know what that would be, but the term "back to back" invites people to think that they're doing something illegal when they're not.

For example, I have to go to ATL late this week. I booked one 1-way flight from MEM-ATL on Thursday and one 1-way flight from ATL-MEM on Friday. Until a few days ago I had never heard the term "back to back ticket" and, after reading this thread, got curious if I had done something illegal.

(For those that are curious, I booked one trip through DL.com and the other trip through Travelocity.com. I'm a Travelocity.com credit card holder, so I'm motivated to buy through them. I also had an eCert I wanted to use. So that's how this screw-brained itinerary came about...)

Here's the definition of a back-to-back ticket:

Intended travel:
26APR11 AAA-BBB
28APR11 BBB-AAA

There's no Saturday night stay, so this might force a higher fare (was a bigger deal back when more fares had Saturday night stay requirements).

Ticketed travel:

Ticket 1:
26APR11 AAA-BBB
02MAY11 BBB-AAA

Ticket 2:
28APR11 BBB-AAA
02MAY11 AAA-BBB

Here you use the first coupon from both tickets to fly AAA-BBB, and then throw away the second coupon. If the Saturday night stay results in an overall fare (because you look like a leisure passenger, not a business passenger), it's a good deal for the customer. But also fraud, and a violation of the conditions of contract. Basically a variant of throwaway ticketing/non-sequential use of coupons. Doesn't matter if you do it on one airline or two (although easier to get away with on two).

So the OP is fine, as his itinerary is not designed to circumvent fare rules, and he intends to use all coupons. AUDirt is also fine - that's not a back-to-back ticket. Maybe not the best terminology. Basically, use all of your coupons, or you're breaking the rules.

Be careful on Back-to-back. They do audit and will force you to pay, even if it was "years" ago.

Being a good custodian of your company's or client's money is one thing, committing fraud to accomplish this is quite another thing.

"Federal prison aint my bag baby!" To paraphrase Austin Powers...

Okay, I have another question for the board on this topic.

A few years ago my employer sent me to SDF for two weeks. My itinerary looked (something) like this:

10-APR MEM -> SDF
22-APR SDF -> MEM

During that trip I took a very hard look at flying home (on my own dime) on the middle weekend. That itinerary would have looked like:

15-APR SDF-> MEM
17-APR MEM-> SDF

As things worked out I elected to drive home as opposed to purchasing a flight, but this conversation has made me curious to see if I came close to breaking the rules (unknowingly).

Would this have been a back-to-back flight?

On one hand, I would have used all of the booked flights. And those flights would have been booked in that manner because some of the flights were being paid for by my employer, while I would have paid for others.

On the other hand, this pattern looks a lot like the examples everyone gives for back to back ticketing.

Depends on the fare, and whether you circumvented a Saturday night stay requirement. My guess is that in that circumstance, if you could show you paid for the flight home, DL wouldn't crack the whip too hard on that. And you said it was a middle weekend - so sounds like you'd still have a Sautrday night stay on both.

It seems to me that a lot hinges on whether the fare would be different and whether you have a Saturday night stay?

For example how about this (random dates for example purposes):

outbound May 1 AA home base to BB

[then a local flight in Europe to CC on a different airline]

May 11 CC to AA home base


May 20 AA home base to CC

[then internal flight in Europe on different airline]

return May 30 BB to AA

All on DL (apart form the internal flights)

I see this as a back to back. But if there are Saturdays within EVERY stay, and each trip is a complete one, does one get spanked?

I'd be grateful for views. And grateful for wording in the COC that would specifically prohibit this.

Here's how DL defines it:

"Back-to-back ticketing—combining multiple overlapping round-trip tickets to circumvent Saturday or other overnight stay requirements."

Your example doesn't appear to be fraudulent ticketing. You're flying every segment, and it's unlikely to be an itinerary designed to game the fare rules. Now there could be fare rules for which your itinerary was fraudulent, but that would depend on specifics.

Now I know this isn't back-to-back ticketing, but how about the situation where home base is AAA. You fly to BBB every week for work, but elect to make your round trip BBB-AAA from Thursday to Monday (by booking a 1 way at some point). This makes you look like a leisure traveler, no?

Of course there is no way for DL to enforce this, but just a thought.

It's a violation of Delta's rules but it is in no way fraud. There are things DL can do to you but having you arrested and thrown in jain is not one of them.

Also, mostly "back-to-back" doesn't involve throwing away a coupon but flying all flights but in such a way that it get's around having a particular night's stay (usually Saturday but doesn't have to be).

Some people seem to be worried -- having overlapping tickets itself is not a problem. It depends on the dates and fares purchased.

OP's ticket is legal nested ticket, no problems. Back to back is a big no no. Delta RPU all over you, at least you risk it.

Throwing away ticket coupons is more often associated with hidden city ticketing -- booking A-B-C/C-B-A and getting off at B on the return.

The end-on-end ticketing that the OP wants to do is just fine. I've even had baggage checked all the way through on both itins if the layover is short enough.

I disagree - it is fraud. Let's look at the elements of a civil fraud claim one-by-one:

1.a representation of an existing fact;
When purchasing two tickets, you represent that you are taking those two trips. If your true O&D is AAA-BBB and you buy AAA-BBB and BBB-AAA on different dates, you have misrepresented that fact. Even if you use all coupons (two AAA-BBB flights, booked back-to-back such that each trip uses one coupon from each ticket), you are misrepresenting your itineraries.

2.its materiality;
DL specifically prohibits this in the CoC. Thus it is material.

3.its falsity;
See (1) above.

4.the speaker's knowledge of its falsity;
See (1) above.

5.the speaker's intent that it shall be acted upon by the plaintiff;
If you're back-to-back ticketing with the intent of changing the fare rules applied to you, and getting a lower fare, that's intent.

6.plaintiff's ignorance of its falsity;
DL has no way of knowing your ticketing is fraudulent until it starts to see anomalies in the system.

7.plaintiff's reliance on the truth of the representation;
When you book the itineraries, DL is assuming you intend to fly as ticketed.

8.plaintiff's right to rely upon it; and
See (7) above.

9.consequent damages suffered by plaintiff.
DL is being denied revenue that it sought from a passenger traveling on your true itinerary.

I also believe ticketing fraud is theft of services/larceny - just like jumping a turnstyle, stiffing a cabbie on a fare, or tampering with your utility meters. That DL doesn't press charges does not make it any less a crime.

As for throwing away coupons, it depends on how you work your back-to-back ticketing. Non-sequential use of flight coupons is ticketing fraud on its own, but can be used for back-to-back. However, if you're taking two trips on the same O&D, you can use all the coupons in the example set forth above and still be engaged in fraudulent ticketing practices.

Long story short - people need to stop believing they have a right to steal money from airlines through ticketing fraud. It's wrong - no ifs, ands or buts about it.