Like I said, I see both sides of it. Ultimately I don't think an airline would have any luck, whatsoever, of pursuing a legal remedy to this situation for the precise reasons you've outlined. I also think this is why they're getting away from this model in general.

But, for the sake of argument, I will state that I still see no difference between what ExAAer is saying and my timeshare example. Both are promotional conditions that have been put in place by the seller. If I fail to meet the promotional conditions, I can't be shocked if they attempt to revoke the promotional rate.

(I think) What you're arguing is that the airline has no right or authority to place this kind of expectation on the consumer. This is a separate issue in my opinion and one in which I happen to agree with you.

perhaps end on end should be be the term used for the op's tickets, but getting people to use it, might be harder than getting rid of direct flight which causes me to cringe every time i see/hear it...

I believe timeshare companies quote a conditional rate and make you sign that a specific higher rate applies if the session is not attended. Airlines never write in their sale condition that you have to pay x dollar or a fee of x dollars if not all flights are used. So their ability to charge back an arbitrary amount to my cc would be rather impossible.

That is a good point...

No... again... it is your argument that it is smart shopping that has no legal basis. Arguments the other way do (although the frequency of airlines asserting their rights in such situations is admittedly very low). Delta engages in e-commerce transactions with you based on your representations of your travel intentions. If they say "we will give you a deal if you fulfill these terms", you can't take them up on it knowing that you have schemed a way to get a better deal on travel that would be much more expensive if you had truthfully represented your intentions, and then claim you are in the right. Legally, ethically. Being able to invest the funds in your family's financial well-being has absolutely nothing to do with morality... I can steal money all day long and invest it in my family's financial well-being, that doesn't make it moral.

Ah yes, so the airline tells you the precise terms and conditions of sale, and they are tricking you because you don't bother to read them. But when you buy a ticket for travel FROM New York to Atlanta, and instead use it as half of a trip from Atlanta to New York and half of a second trip from Atlanta to New York, you're being righteous. Makes a ton of sense.



You can criticize them all you want. But you cannot mandate your vision of the "right" business model on them. You love Southwest so much? Fly them. I'm sure Delta will survive without you.

Thus exposing the fact that you know nothing about the airline industry. Which, honestly, was my least favorite part about working in it for many years - everyone thinks they're: (a) an expert; and (b) can do it better than the people who work there. Just because you have a lot of flights at an airport, it doesn't make it a hub. A hub exists primarily to carry flow traffic. A focus city is one with significant point-to-point traffic through which flow traffic may route. The difference is in the structure of the network. Southwest makes its schedule based on point-to-point demand. If connections are created, so much the better. A hub carrier makes its schedule based on the ability to flow traffic. For example, Southwest serves DAL-AUS primarily to carry traffic between Dallas and Austin. American serves DFW-AUS primarily to flow traffic between Austin and the rest of the network. I'd say go work for an airline and learn something, but you could just read Wikipedia instead:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_city

"Compared to a hub operation, flights from focus cities are often less frequent, served by smaller regional aircraft, and cater more to origin and destination traffic instead of connecting traffic. Connections are often available by default, however, due to the number of destinations and frequencies served by a single operator (sometimes in conjunction with operational partners)."

Yes, but if you had any clue how Southwest priced, you'd know that there were rarely, if ever, routings that connected with a lower price than the nonstop. Southwest doesn't price to compete vigorously on connect routings. Its bread and butter is undercutting hub carriers on local routes. Again, this is because Southwest is a point-to-point carrier. Connections are a byproduct, not the main product.

Wake me when you have some expertise.

What's a "leisure rate" for the hotel? They don't ask you the purpose of your travel. They revenue manage just like an airline does. Seeing how hotels are immovable, it's kind of hard to engage in back-to-back bookings. But if a hotel had a special "locals only" rate, and I booked it as a tourist using a fake ID, I would be engaged in fraud. Or if they required a Saturday night stay, and I checked out on Friday, they'd be justified in adjusting my bill.

Lots of big words. However, just because you don't like terms of sale doesn't make them any of those things. Delta has rules. If you don't like them, you have two choices: (1) don't fly them; or (2) convince them to change the rules. However, ignoring them is not an ethical or legal response. And for like the 800th time, no airline is ever going to press charges for ticketing fraud. Just like a baseball team isn't going to prosecute you for buying cheap seats and then grabbing front row seats that are empty - even though you're technically trespassing. They're just going to throw you out or ask you to go back to your seat., and they should.

Why not? It's a publicly available fare? All you have to do is tell them you're buying the ticket for your kid and use it. I mean, it's really honestly an arbitrary, outdated, unenforceable one sided condition, right? So just break the rule. That's your policy toward airlines after all.

Really?

http://www.delta.com/planning_reserv...ules/index.jsp

Prohibited Ticketing Practices
Our fares apply only to the specific itineraries for which they are quoted and the restrictions that apply to our discounted fares are an essential part of our contract with you. These restrictions make it possible for us to offer these discounted fares.

Failure to comply with applicable fare restrictions, circumventing those restrictions, or misrepresenting your intended itinerary are all violations of our Contract of Carriage.

While not an exclusive list, the following ticketing practices are prohibited:

Back-to-back ticketing—combining multiple overlapping round-trip tickets to circumvent Saturday or other overnight stay requirements.
Throw-away ticketing—use of discounted round-trip excursion fares for one-way travel.
Point-beyond ticketing—use of a fare published for travel to a point beyond your actual intended destination or from a point before your actual intended origin.
In such cases where there is a violation of our Contract of Carriage, we reserve the right to:

Cancel the remainder of the itinerary and confiscate any unused flight coupons.
Refuse to board the passenger or check baggage.
Charge the passenger for the difference between the fare paid and the fare for the passenger's traveled itinerary.

First, in a back-to-back ticketing scheme for two round-trips, you use all coupons. And even in hidden-city or throwaway ticketing, the airline isn't going to know you are no-showing until the very last minute. Not a lot of walk-up traffic 10 minutes before departure. And frankly, at full Y, they'll usually oversell the seat and take a volunteer.

Second, it is your right to bargain for the best deal available. But bargain is defined as "an agreement between parties settling what each gives or receives in a transaction between them or what course of action or policy each pursues in respect to the other." It's a two-way street. When you lie to them and tell them you want to stay Saturday night that's not a "bargain." That's fraud.

They're welcome to send a bill. Good luck collecting.

You lost me when you were talking about Southwest Airlines, smaller regional aircraft, and operational partners in the same sentence. Say what?

I will continue to book my back-to-back tickets as I have successfully and without challenge done since 1984, just as all smart and seasoned travellers do.

Everybody has their own reasons, and mine are these:

1.) Where I sleep on Saturday night is no more the carrier's business than where I sleep on Wednesday night. The carrier's only business is air transportation; it is not life management or activity control. Since their operating cost niether goes down nor up on Sunday versus Saturday, my cost to go home on Saturday (or any other day) versus Sunday will not increase or decrease either.

2.) Contracts of Carriage have been litigated repeatedly since 1974, always resulting in a win by the customer and a loss by the carrier except in cases where the COC is stating statutory and regulatory requirements under federal law. There is no statute or regulation anywhere that mandates subjects such as day of travel, trip length, etc. Such subject regurgitations by the carrier are pointless drivel. Foolish people follow it and employees support it because they fly for free without such mindless games. If employees flying free can go home on Friday, why should paying customers wait until Sunday, in this case?

3.) Any unilateral attempt by a carrier to extract more money from me under guise of a "contract" clause that is unenforceable always has been ignored by me and always will be ignored by me.


The folks at Delta, including those who have posted here, are laughing their heads off at the length of this subject discussion.

Are the morality squad here Delta employees? No wonder then. Anyway I don't care for any lecture on how to shop the best fare. Just want to remove the myths of "illegal" ticketing. Back to back my a.s! Thanks for the supporting posts. And no sympathy for airlines who are
So good at trying to create their own "laws" designed to screw passengers out of their last nickels and dimes and trying to hide behind impossible fine print.

I can't believe what this thread is turning out to be:

1. Is it fraud?

No, DL can't do anything but take away your miles.

2. Will they do it?

Maybe, but don't be surprised if they will.

To be sure I don't see anthing in the conditions for carriage which provides for canceling a customer mileage account.

It's in the SkyMiles Rules & Conditions:

Delta reserves the right to terminate your membership in the SkyMiles program at any time if you violate the SkyMiles program rules, any term or condition of Delta's contract of carriage, Delta's fare rules, or any other Delta rules and regulations that apply to your travel. Termination of your membership will result in a loss of all accumulated mileage credit in your account, the cancellation of any unused Awards or Award Certificates, and the loss of all other SkyMiles benefits. Terminated members are not eligible to participate in any aspect of the SkyMiles program, including without limitation any special promotions or SkyMiles partnership offers. In lieu of termination, Delta may at its sole discretion deduct mileage from your account, but permit you to continue participating in the SkyMiles program.

Members whose accounts have been terminated for any reason may not reopen new accounts.