I usually fly *A (CO gold), but being HK based, I often find myself flying CX even when I don't want to. For a variety of reasons, I have determined to not fly CX anymore unless absolutely necessary.

I fly to the US and China mostly, so China Eastern/China Southern/Delta are my options. I already have a skymiles account with a few miles from when I had to travel on NWA before - is there any advantages to accruing to a CSA or CE account?

I researched the Chinese programs, but the rules are quite different from the "western" programs so it was difficult for me to see if there were any advantages.

I mostly care about ease of using miles for redemptions and upgrades for long hauls.

Any suggestions?

Not Delta if these are your main concerns.

The real question though, is China Eastern/China Southern any better?

MU and CZ's programs are not as good as the ones in the US. If you are based in HKG, unless you want to connect in China mainland not much reason to fly MU/CZ (unless you want to head first via land to SZX or CAN). However, since you said mostly China US here's my suggestions.

Going to China, fly CZ/MU and credit to DL. Soon, MU should start earning you MQM's on DL (once MU officially joins ST), CZ already earns MQMs but watch the fare classes.

To the US, just take your pick of carriers, but carriers from the US are probably better. Either way, earn your miles to US programs and try to stick to an alliance. Since you're not happy with CX, seems like you should go to ST.

could also look at flying to the US via korea with Asiana if you want to keep your *G and air china to china though I don't know the full extent. that is another option.

But the OP'S main concerns are Low Award availability and Upgrades. DL is not the airline for low awards in Biz to China or cheap upgrades.

thanks, this is really helpful! my initial thought is to accrue to DL also, especially since I want to redeem upgrades/tickets primarily on the long hauls to the US (I can stand miserable short flights to China)

right now I fly mostly CX to China and mostly *A to the US, so I end up with splitting my miles. *A is strong with Asia but is not so great with China (Air China's PEK hub is inconvenient because I am flying in from the South). ST seems like it might solve my problem with both good US and good Chinese partners.

I'm not that familiar with DL, is the redemption really that bad? if I accrue to DL, is it very difficult to get partner awards (i.e. starnet blocking like *A)? Conversely, any one have experience on how hard is it to spend CZ/MU miles on DL tickets?

AFAIK so far DL hasn't done the analogue of starnet blocking, but DL miles can be used on partner award tickets only if there is "low" availability. KE has many blackout dates, which DL interprets as being systemwide, so that effectively DL miles cannot be used on KE for close to half of the year.

As you probably know, China Southern has good service within China (which I have experienced) but their TPAC (CAN-LAX and VV) is widely rumored to use extremely tight seating in coach.

Have you considered StarAlliance? In addition to the TPAC flights on UA, SQ has a nonstop HKG-SFO as well as lots of connections through SIN, although UA SWUs can't be used to upgrade on SQ and SQ status would not lead to UDU on UA/CO flights within North America. SQ is a great airline, but don't expect OPUPs, good handling in IROPs,
or much post-arrival service.

Do you primarily travel to CAN/PEK/SHA-PVG or must you reach somewhat smaller airports (maybe cities with populations of only four million?) within China?

I'm surprised by your insistence on avoiding CX from HKG and I wonder if perhaps you're overreacting to one very bad experience (or the recent runway strandings upon arrival at JFK and the diversions to Canada). The grass might not be greener elsewhere.

To at least some extent, your decision should be based on your annual spend and not just miles flown. SQ is particularly noted for reserving benefits for high spenders on their metal, while UA offers GS with special benefits to those that initially hit their spending requirements and then fly a certain number of miles in high fare classes.

We are stuck with DL, as are most of our buddies, all Michigan people and DTW is where we go.

End of last year DL would not credit all the China Southern miles unless you faxed in your boarding pass. Became quite the hassle checking which flights were credited and which did you need to fax documents and keep an eye on.

777 in coach to the US is not horrible and the status helps with bags and boarding. China Southern is the best of the bunch we have found for flying in the southeast of China mainland. That could change anytime though.

Other than that we have a whole bunch of miles that are hard to use unless you spend the whole wad on one flight. Last I heard one guy flew coach from DTW to HG as the upgrade min for that time frame was 5 grand, that's a lot of money in order to upgrade.

Have never been able to figure out how to get into a lounge in China unless you are on Intl BE, even the Chinese people cannot explain that one to us.

Priority Pass includes a number of airport lounges in China. If you can get to the lounge, you not only don't need to be flying a particular airline, you technically don't even need to be flying that day as no boarding pass is required for admission, although you're supposed to use it only when travelling.

I think this is one of those situations where there isn't a single program that is going to optimize your transpac AND your HK-China travel. If you can't stomach the obvious choice CX/KA, then my advice is to stick with *Alliance on the long hauls and earn/redeem your major mileage on one or more of those programs.

Delta is not a good program for an Asia-based flyer, if you are expecting to get decent redemption and upgrade opportunities (on expensive M+ fares) on the transpac longhauls. (The old Northwest World Perks, in contrast, provided quite well for its Asia-based members.) It is still pretty easy to use DL miles on intra-Asia flights especially in Y...in which case CZ, MU, KE, MH and soon to be VN are all available to you. I think you can still get Y round trips for 20,000 miles + tax + fuel surcharges, and availability is usually pretty good. The secret to getting what you want on intra-Asia awards on partners is to just go to the local Delta office with your wish list and let them do it there, maybe phone. Unlike the USA standard policy, I have yet to hear of a local Delta office in Asia that charges for in-person or telephone assistance. The Delta website is next-to-useless for procuring awards within Asia or on partner airlines.

Years ago, I joined CA and CZ FFP's but pretty quickly abandoned both due to general uselessness. After years here and even after they joined intl alliances, I have yet to figure out any useable value-added of any Chinese FFP's. Most China-based expats I know put their miles accrued on domestic flights to a non-Chinese airline FFP alliance/partner. What are your most common destinations in China? Is flying CZ out of Shenzhen a possibility for you, at least some of the time?

I have never heard of anyone trying to AVOID CX. Ever.

Good point, glad you brought that up. DL is horrible for international redemptions (in low), and even worse in J than in Y. OP, please be warned, esp from US-Asia. I and a few others who look at US-Asia in J have been VERY VERY frustrated. And despite the nay-sayers who defend DL on their FFP, even they will admit that going to Asia is horrible on DL compared to competitors (CO, AA, UA).

That being said, DL miles are fantastic intra-Asia. DL metal is hard to find, but you can book on KE, MU, CZ, MH, and CA. It was even better when SQ could be booked too.

Per my advice above, DL metal is horrible esp across the big pond. However, using DL miles on CZ and MU are great. I've used DL miles to book MU/CZ flights across China, fly to Japan several times, the Philippines, and Thailand. Again, Y is 20K and J is 40K (sigh, the good old NW days of 30K in J are gone).