Guaranteed First Class
 

Hi all I just found this site and joined. I hope my first post doesn't offend too many........

I am based in Atlanta and fly on average 120k a year with a combination of international (atl-london) and cross country (atl-sea, lax). I have always purchased first class but recently people sitting next to me are telling me to buy the cheapest level tickets and just get easy upgrades (especially internal flights).

My question is related to travel in the US: is there a specifc level flight I can buy to guarantee an upgrade (Y or M) or can I instead just buy a changeable cheaper ticket level and pay to upgrade if an upgrade doesn't come thru in my window (I am PM)? My number one goal is to not play gate roulette or risk getting stuck in economy. I would be happy to risk buying an M or B ticket on every flight and then just pay for an upgrade to FC if I didn't get one for free if its possible.

I am in the lucky position of working for a company that pays for FC so its not my money but am getting fed up with sitting consistantly next to people telling me they have paid squat for their ticket etc. I am beginning to feel like I am being made a fool of by Delta for actually paying for a FC ticket..........

Welcome to Flyer Talk!

I don't think you are a fool and I'm annoyed with DL for the cheap upgrades. I too fly paid F some of the time partially for medical reasons.
Last time I flew DL on a paid F ticket I was harrassed by a drunk guy sitting a row behind me and had to move. I've never had that experience on UA where the F cabin is mostly UDUs and paid F - people who typically fly alot and are not unused to the F cabin and how to handle the drink service. Mainly business travellers who treat everyone else as business travellers. The guy was treating the F cabin like a pickup bar and annoying me and the woman next to me he did not know when to quit and was too drunk to realize it. I complained to Delta and got a pat on the head nothing more. The FA moved me, informed the other FAs, and they stopped serving the guy but frankly they could have done more. I don't know that he got a cheap upgrade but he fit the profile of someone unused to the F cabin. He pretty much said so amid all the other comments.

Also I will add that if you were 120K miles/year on UA you'd be getting UDUs on domestic fights - the current FT stats are around 83% hit rate free upgrades and the SWUs etc are also pretty good depending on the route But nothing is guaranteed so you need to pay for F if you want a guaranteed seat unless you can confirm the upgrade ahead of time if there is e.g. NC space at time of booking, but this typically means using up one of your upgrade instruments. Since you fly in and out of ATL though DL should be your carrier of choice.

Here I am adding another paragraph! Another reason not to do the last minute upgrade - if your company works at all like mine - I can often book in F due to various rules but then if I try to submit a receipt for a paid upgrade at the last minute that would go through a different office and it would be hard to cover that. I.e. they will pay for F if I have a good reason for it but if I buy Y and then ask for the F upgrade cost later they may deny it. So it would be hard for me to do what you are suggesting, even though it might save money. They could argue that I booked in Y so I was obviously happy with that and thus did not need the upgrade.

Thanks for the welcome. Yes living in Atl I am stuck with Delta as I hate non direct flights. On international I have been using BA on some flights and also AF. If its a 777 or 767 long I am ok with Delta FC. My main reason for not always using Delta on international is the small planes and shoddy FC seating and service. Who is going to pay FC fees for a seat which doesn't even recline.............

I am lucky as my company goes on trust (very old fashioned no receipts) so I can pay to upgrade. It would be just like an itinery change.

I am trying to figure out if buying Y, M or B will give me a 95% chance of upgrade and then if I don't in the window then I can just swop to a paid FC and pay the extra circa 400-500. On my typical atl-sea or atl-lax routes even if I got an upgrade 50% I would save 6k a year based on two flights a month.

Not sure what this profile might be, but to get an UG from a non-F fare, the passenger would have had to been FO at a minimum. If he is someone who was not used to flying in F, in all likelihood, he was someone who paid for F or was able to afford an UG from something other than a deeply discounted fare. (Granted, in rare instance it might be someone bumped from an earlier flight.) I've sat in domestic F many times this year - maybe 70 or so times - and this is NOT a common experience.

Let me suggest you be wary of advice that comes from close-minded, ignorant people who think that people "fit the profile" of anything. You will learn, as you read this board, there there is no single profile that fits everyone who has good advice to give. (And, yes, businesstraveller2, the comment tells us more about you than anyone else with whom you may have flown.)

Y fares will get you an automatic upgrade (as long as there is upgrade inventory) at the time of purchase... everything below that you will upgrade either at your medallion window or play the gate lottery.

The downside is that Y fares are the most expensive coach fare (fully refundable) and often you can find discounted first (A) fares for the same or less... although probably not on your routes.

Also keep in mind that complimentary upgrades are only available domestically.

As a PM no, in fact a Diamond on a T fare would trump you in upgrade on every fare except Y (Y fares can get upgrade at purchase if inventory is available).

If you were a DM, I would say a B or M fare would put you in the all but guarenteed upgrade (except the high traffic flights like ATL-LAX, ATL-SFO etc). Having the AMEX Reserve card puts you higher than someone with the same status, same fare code that doesn't have it.

Your upgrade percentage would be high, but not guarenteed 100% if you purchases lower fares.

The Upgrade priority is
DM Y, PM Y, GM Y, SM Y,
DM B Amex Reserve, B,M Amex Reserve, M .... to T
PM B Amex Reserve, B,M Amex Reserve, M .... to T
GM B Amex Reserve, B,M Amex Reserve, M .... to T
SM B Amex Reserve, B,M Amex Reserve, M .... to T

If you are tied with someone else on status and fare, the the date you purchase determines who gets the upgrade.

I gotta tell ya, reading your post makes me think you are NOT a frequent flyer. "The profile" ...huh? You may not think I fit "the profile" but I fly 200+k a year and am a senior executive with a large company.

One of my best encounters was a while back on a transcon. I was in 1B and two DYKWIA's were in 2A/B blathering on about how much they spend to sit up front, how big the deal they are GOING to close is, how they cannot be productive if they are not comfy, and how free upgrades are degrading the service...blah, blah, blahditty blah. I had to have a look at these DB's because they were loud and obnoxious so coming back from the lav I did. They gave me a look as if to say "you are not in our league”. I am relatively young, I travel in nice cloths but not suits. Anyone who flies every week and is not going straight to a meeting knows that there is no reason to over dress for a flight unless you have to. That apparently was enough for them to think I do not fit “the profile”. Fast forward to the next day. I have several providers coming in to see me for the final round of an RFQ worth $25 Million USD. 6 finalists….GUESS WHO WALKS IN. They saw me, they knew it (though they pretended they did not) and they felt like crap. It was all over their faces the entire 5 HOUR meeting. As it turns out they lost based on other factors because I would never let something like that impact how I manage my companies business…but I guarantee you these guys do not “profile” anyone any longer.

There is no “profile”. There are only over active egos who think there is.

Not to hijack the post but frankly when you have a drunk guy harrassing two women and talking about how he does not usually fly F - he was using lots of profanities and harrassing the both of us. And as 1K I do fly quite alot - have been flying for about 20 years - and I have never in my life had this kind of trouble when minding my own business on a flight in coach or first class. Please reread my post. I am a _female_ frequent flyer and the guy was using swear words because we would not flirt with him. I'm a middle aged female business traveller this has nothing to do with my status but simple plain common courtesy and knowing how to behave in the company of others.

For those of you men reading this - if you are married and your wife was flying on Delta on paid F and was harrassed, sworn at, and hit on by a drunk guy who "did not fit the profile" because he was behaving this way and admitting he does not fly F - how would you feel about it? The women in the seat next to me was concerned about my safety and suggested I might talk to security when I got off the plane. I should not have that trouble in either coach or first but frankly it's adding insult to injury when you have that on a paid first class ticket.

Enough said. Please do read the fine print.

I don't think that had anything to do with DL. I think that you had a bad experience, but I believe it could have happened anywhere. In fact, I would think that it was MORE likely to happen with people who are buying an occasional F ticket than those who are up there on a regular basis. Just my opinion though.

Sorry but you are wrong. They may well be jerks but who are you or anyone else to determine if they fit the "profile" to fly first. If they paid or if they fly enough for an upgrade then they deserve to be there. If by their actions they get booted then great but that is not a "profile" of anything other than a jerk. First class has nothing whatever to do with it.

I think you are making too much of this. The guy _admitted_ he did not fly F much. That's the only point. And frankly if I pay full fare F I would like to just have a peaceful flight without being sworn at, hit on, and verbally harrassed by a drunk person. Maybe it was just my bad luck with Delta but I have not had this happen so far at all on UA. I've found the very frequent flyers to, as a rule, be very courteous in the air.

I agree...
But, as you mentioned, "The guy did not fly F much", which probably means that he did not fly much period... Particularly if on DL. So you're talking about two different groups of people, and that guy could have bought a F ticket on UA just as easily as he did on DL.

Yes this is precisely my point. Sorry if it was not clear. The guy basically admitted he did not fly F much - perhaps did not fly much at all hard to say I was trying to avoid him. I'm kind of shocked I would get jumped on in the forum for complaining about verbal and very close to physical harassment where there was concern for my safety. I think people try to read too much into things. Honestly this really bugs me because frankly I find that often in the first class section there are very few women and we do not always get treated that well especially if we are flying alone. The forum strikes me as very male and I often get confused for a male because of my forum name.

It is the idea that SOME people should be in F and not others based on some "profile" somebody has in their mind that is getting me. Again, I fly 200K a year and 90% of it is on the cheapest fare possible. I do that out of fiduciary responsibility and I fly up front because Delta gets $30-50k a year from me and that is the deal. "Paid" fc is just a single paid flight. I would argue that I deserve peace and quiet after my 12Th leg of the week far more than the occasional person who ponies up $150 (really, "paid" is not a big deal) to sit up there. I have no problem with you and agree they were jerks...I do not agree that what cabin they are in has anything to do with it.

You are not at all getting jumped on for complaining about the guy's behavior. In fact, I would say that 99.9% of people on here would agree with you.

You are getting jumped on (a little bit) for trying to correlate that behavior with Delta:
DL doesn't provide cheap upgrades unless you fly a lot, meaning that this guy probably bought an F ticket.