He/she has been posting on the AA FA strike thread on the AAdvantage forum and has made many statements without facts to back them up, and has been unwilling to answer questions from other posters about the union (that he/she somehow is associated with or represents).




Anyway, I fly Delta because it is non-union. Fortunately I do not drive a UAW made vehicle and objectively support non-union businesses such as Whole Foods Market that genuinely care about their employees and pay a living wage with generous benefits. I would gladly give DL more of my business than union-heavy AA but my travel patterns and being based in BOS make that tough for me. While DL has a big presence and gorgeous new terminal A here, many of the places I regularly go are not served non-stop and IMHO AAdvantage is superior to Skymiles. Nonetheless, DL is a great carrier and I love the new product and service from DL employees. Please, please don't allow unions to destroy Delta Air Lines!

I'm quite the opposite. I'm not trying to be argumentative but just stating FWIW that I'm of a different opinion.

I'm not fanatical about it, but I'm of the opinion corporations hold almost all the power in this world, even more so than governments. Disagree with me if you will, that is fine with me. It is why I'm extremely pro-consumer, and tend to support unions until they do something blatantly stupid/unfair. It's because this world/normal people need something capable of offsetting the huge advantage large corporations have over everyone else.

Large corporations sign the paychecks of normal workers. They can sue normal people for little reason, and if they get sued by little people for doing something wrong, they can drown said little person in months/years of court proceedings, paper work and legal fees. Large corporations get away with this because they have attorneys on staff that get paid salaries no matter what work they do.

Anyone who actually manages to win a meaningful case against a large corporation makes national news. And we respond by condemning litigious society.

Any union who manages to gain benefits against a corporation mistreating or taking advantage of its workers... we condemn the union.

Corporations give money to politicians, and have PR staffs dedicated to spinning media coverage of events to their liking. It's not a consipiracy, and I have no tinfoil hat. Money is power, and helps anyone (a.) get their way, and (b.) helps their perspective to be presented as fact.

I understand many unions don't do what's in the company's (i.e., management's) interest. But you know what? Management teams don't always do what's in their employees' best interests either.

If you're in a company that's not unionized, and you have invested years, blood sweat and tears in your employer's company, you are 100% at the mercy of your bosses. A lot of people just can't pack up and leave. Anything that tips the balance more towards 50/50, and helps average people have a fighting chance against multi-billion dollar corporations, is OK with me.

I'm a Delta Gold Medallion, and I'm glad Delta employees are trying to unionize. If Delta management keeps hyperbolizing and demonizing the attempt to organize (as opposed to trying to keep unionization at bay through legitimate means), I will view them even more poorly than I do now.

Using your logic, the company seems to exist for the sole purpose of pleasing its employees? That's one sure way to drive a company out of business. The company exists to provide a return to shareholders and provide service to customers. Period. I'm not saying employees are insignificant but if management keeps giving into union demands (ie UAW and Ford/GM/Chrysler) what will happen to the industry?

There seems to be a better morale among the employees at non-union carriers, namely DL, B6, and VX. Poor service is expected and tolerated the heavily unionized carriers namely AA, UA, and formerly NW. I'm not saying all unions are bad and hurt morale (look at WN-they have good management and a receptive, savvy, responsible union) with good employee retention, morale, and customer service.

Neither do employees exist for the sole purpose of pleasing their companies. It's no way to live a life.

Non-owners of the company have no obligation to sacrifice themselves for the enrichment of their employers. They should be paid and treated fairly. If in their opinion they are not, no one else has a right to tell them otherwise, and no one else has a right to tell them how to respond, as long as they are within the law.

Edit: I strongly disagree with your statement about "shareholders/customers, period": #1 indicator of customer satisfaction is employee satisfaction. I'm of the strong opinion that the #1 priority of any company should be taking care of its employees. I state this because the employees are the ones actually taking care of the customers, not management. Look up Bill Marriott's quote on the matter.

Perhaps these employees are not unionized because they are content in the first place. But then again, WN has better service than any of these airlines IMO and they are more happy than any of them (as you stated).

As I stated -- unions sometimes go too far but American citizens have a constitutional right to assemble -- it's in the very First Amendment of our Bill of Rights. They have a right to exist.

If the money is not there to meet union demands, then the demands will not be met. If the money is there, good for the employees for making sure they got what they could.

So if the DL mainline employees are content why is the AFA and IMA trying to unionize them?

I agree people should have the right to assemble, but at the same time airline employees should be covered by their states right to work laws and not be subject to forced union membership. The railway labor standard does not recognize right to work laws. If union membership is forced, it defeats the purpose of the union IMHO.

Indeed, Delta doesn't need the union's help. They've been perfectly capable of destroying the airline on their own, with a sub-par SkyMiles product, horrible IT, a really bad BE product in the 767-300ER and 777-200ER, sending everyone through ATL (because who wouldn't want to connect through ATL?), and forgetting to take the best of both airlines in this merger and just simply making everything "Delta" and saying oooh, look at the shiny new route map and our AmEx bling!

No, Delta doesn't need the union's help to destroy itself. They can manage that on their own just fine...

This company which has such contempt for its "loyalty" program customers has no less contempt for employees, especially of the unionized or unionizing sort.

DL management gets the critics it deserves, and unionization drives are just another example of that.

If there is evidence of coersion on the other side, my tune will change a little. If they're trying to recruit people voluntarily, there is nothing wrong with that, as "content" employees can tell the solicitors to buzz off.

At present, we have a bizarre implication -- not even an accusation -- by DL's CEO. It strikes me as a contemptible smear campaign (if the evil teamsters were to do this to you... I mean we're not accusing anyone here!), rather than a genuine bulletin for the safety of its employees.

At present, none of us know for certain.

I think unions make workers complacent. I am not sure if complacent is the right word though. Unioned employees in my experience don't care about the consequences because often times the consequences aren't that big of a deal. .... half the unioned employees I know like when they get suspended because they think of it as paid vacation. The only unioned employee I know that doesn't like being suspended is a teacher and thats because he is stuck in some room for 8 hours a day doing nothing but yet he makes 70k a year.

Or unions lead their employees down the wrong track. Like the NYC Transit strike two or three years ago. City offered them a contract Union turned it down, after 3 days of striking they agree to a similar contract that actually gave their employees less and each employee was deducted around 2500 dollars as a fine for striking.

I know a guy that works for UPS, I know him because he is my UPS driver and he is the rudest son of biotch I know. When I was sick it took me a little longer to open the door for him on a cold winter day a few years ago and he basically cursed me out for taking so long.

I have a video camera with audio recorder on my door and sent that video to UPS. I personally think calling someone an A-hole and asking them why the F it F-ing took them so F-ing long to open the f-ing door and that they were a f-tard would get them fired. But I was actually told union rules didn't allow him to be fired and the most they did was give him a slap on the hand. Til this day he is still rude although now he knows I have a video camera at the door and behaves.

Now my fedex guy on the other hand who isn't in the union is the friendliest SOB around. He freaken gave me a gift on my birthday and at Christmas time and my tip to him during the holidays wasn't that big. But then again I did give him a computer once but only because he is such a great delivery guy in fact all my fedex guys have been great and I would say 7 out of 10 of my UPS guys have been horrible.

I am happy to hear that you have never felt intimidated by a pair of 6'2", 250 pound, Girl Scouts.

Wirelessly posted (BB Curve: BlackBerry9700/5.0.0.330 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/100)

I recall flying NWA back when they had the FA labor disputes. It was always a pain to be placed in a situation where sitting up front you'd hear all the gripes the FA's had, and some let it show through their service (or lack of). I don't recall that type of misery from DL FA's; at least in the past few years.

If the former NW FA issues are what I have to look fwd to if the union is put in place, then no thanks.

Hey i know a cute lil girl scout that always comes around with her dad selling cookies. He scares me and makes me feel obligated to buy cookies, but now since they had a recall I have an excuse not to buy them.

My point is that everyone has their own lives to live. If you hate unions so much, fly non-union. It is much easier for you to fly another airline than for all of them to find new jobs. It is their lives 40+ per week, as opposed to our occasional interactions with the employees.

I am more pro-union than many on this board, yet I have often flown DL. I also have flown WN more than any other airline, and they go above and beyond more than anyone. I remember an off-duty FA sitting next to me asking me to let her by so she could help out off the clock on a full FLL-JAX flight. Everyone was floored. This implies it is more about the type of people employed/running the companies, rather than the mere existence or absence of a union.

To put a little context into this we're talking about ground workers no one would ever have any interaction with. I understand they get paid about minimum wage and frankly both PMNW or PMDL looks fairly dirty to me with zero attention to detail. And that's up in F. I shutter to think of what coach looks like.

DL is the largest airline in the world, cleaning standards and wages to get employees who'll achieve those standards shouldn't be so hard.

I've never felt intimidated by mythical fairies.

Perhaps they were real for you, or just a figment of the imagination?